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Originally Posted by Maya View Post
All of this assumes that the majority of people are reasonable and understand the implications of their actions.

For instance, the majority of people are still queerphobic and casually spread queerphobic ideas through jokes or otherwise. Just because the majority doesn't see it as an issue doesn't mean it's not an issue. The majority of people have been bigoted for the entirety of human history. Leaving any of this up to "most reasonable people" is ridiculous because of this context. Centrism doesn't help us here (or ever).

I'd challenge your contention that most people are queerphobic, at least in modern western societies. You can't go out and call a gay person a faggot. That is a shunned act - You would get shouted down by onlookers. I also think that you can't draw a straight line between someone telling a joke (e.g. a wife-beating joke) and then some bozo going out and beating his wife because he heard that joke. It doesn't happen.

With respect to making jokes, I think this is another appropriate time to drop this quote;
"Although conceptual change is inevitable and often well motivated, concept creep runs the risk of pathologizing everyday experience and encouraging a sense of virtuous but impotent victimhood."

Disregarding universal queerphobia (which isn't a thing), the views that reasonable people hold change over time, of course. American founders were quite content to own slaves, as was everyone in the ancient world. It was a reality of the times. There are doubtless other 'moral revolutions' waiting to happen - And if they've valid, reasonable people will jump on board and establish new moral norms. That's how it happens.

Using the 'not wanting to fuck transexuals is bigoted' example, that ain't a valid problem. Tonakai, one of the most level-headed dudes I know, even agreed that that specific point was 'dumb'. The world will never come to a place where everybody thinks it's bigoted not to fuck a transexual, because that is simply not a reasonable concept (not now, not ever).

Factory farming is a legit problem, and if you talk with people about it, while they may view it as a necessary evil (there's a lot of mouths to feed), they'll also contend that when it no longer becomes necessary (and yes people will argue about whether its even necessary right now), it ought to stop immedietely. There's a moral revolution here waiting to happen, and it probably will happen. Reasonable people (spurred on by activists) will make it happen. This brings me back to what I said earlier;
Originally Posted by Ele
For the purposes of that check, anyone with super-strong leanings, one way or the other (SJWs or Nazis), can be safely ignored. That said, I'm not saying the SJW camp can't ever identify a problem that 'almost anyone' would agree is a problem - I'm sure they could (and probably have). I'm saying that everybody else (reasonable people) would have to agree with them in order for the problem they raise to be recognised as a legit problem.

Last edited by Ele; Feb 11, 2020 at 07:59 AM.