Now, if it is as you say, that time relies on physical change, then time can only exist in the universe. Physical change (time) can only exist where space-time/ matter-energy is present.
Making progress!
I said change - any sort of change, regardless of whether it's materialistic or not.
Yes- but only if you hold that the mind is a physical thing. (!)
I, as you know, do not hold such a view.
No - regardless of whether it's physical or not.
I thought we already agreed that time can refer to any change, not necessarily matter or energy (and i am giving you assumption here that there can be something else, for the sake of this argument).
If the mind is a physical thing, then yes. Changing thoughts would mean interaction between molecules, which is change.
BnW....im dissapoint.
Time in full sense of the word = a change relative to other change. Does not matter if it's between electrons or moving bubbles imagined my immaterial god. Astrophysicists say time started in singularity simply because to them it may as well have. Theory of relativity doesn't allow them to even infer the behavior of energy prior to singularity stage (all tracks are covered), hence for them it goes from the time that dot expanded. That hardly means there was no activity before big bang. But I'm going off topic here.
He caused the universe, with time, matter, and space, yes?. The effect IS time. Prior to the big bang, God existed with a timeless intention to create a universe. There is no "before", or "after", there is only a "now", so the cause never actually precedes the effect temporally. t = 0, when time begins, is the moment at which god created the universe. Simultaneous causation.
Amusingly enough, god would have had to have a thought/mind process of some sort to turn his "timeless intention" into action. Is it not so? Between intention to scratch my butt and my hand actually scratching my butt, there is a signal which triggers my action. For me it's electrical impulse firing from my brain, for god it must be something else. Regardless, it requires causation (if we are to assume causation is necessary).
I am well aware that I added personal in that description. I most definitely do have a reason for it, too.
Can i hear it?
There is a phenomenally huge leap from simply broad powerful creator to that one described.....in the bible
We will get there, patience! :]
I hope so.
Last edited by Odlov; Oct 19, 2009 at 07:09 AM.