Yep, as I told you I've none, but it's not irrational to consider this being strongly plausible because UFO's implies 3 possibilities :
-natural phenomenon
-man made technology (but that we, the people, never heard of)
-Extra-terrestrial technology.


Yes counter culture has always existed but was accessible only by the "aficionados" of the said culture and was hard to get into, since it wasn't welcome into the "mainstream" industry. And "counter culture" people has always been pointed out as marginals.

Now people can access "counter culture" as easily as they can access "industrial culture", and that bothers the industry (producing brainless shit for most), and therefore the political ideologies going along with counter culture become less "marginal" et explainable/understandable for a larger part of people.


Yep I understand the supply and demand being an universal concept, and I wasn't proposing to "throw it all out".
But the principle of an over-consumerist system is to "create more demand", not regarding the impact on the environment. Who needs a bigger/flatter TV to watch the same crap? A big part of last decade's "technological advances" are just marketing "straw-man" advances, faster gaming consoles, better HD TV, surround 38.1, plastic toys etc... (plus considering the programmed obsolescence to boost the demand). All those things don't exist to answer human needs, they just exist to boost the industrial complex, it's absurd considering the only reason to boost the industry is the profit of some people, at the expend of our health.

My point is to reach a "human scaled" system, not a system to create exorbitant profit for 5% of the population.


Most people had home and food when we had kings as well.
The actual state of something is no proof of its efficience because it doesn't mean we can't still improve it. It's like you're staying fixed on a system who started a a long time ago, in this period of time we sure did improve technologically, and now that the system you defend have beared its fruits you don't want to harvest them and plant another tree that would answer the needs of more people.

And working hard for something is old fashionned propaganda, considering the number of unemployed people, we could divide the labour to make people work less for the same result. Even more if we considere all the jobs that would become useless if we quit the over-consumerist capitalism, it would mean a new distribution of the labour.


Erh, what you said here is pretty awful. The situation in Africa is because of European countries who decided to draw the boundaries (in Africa), which started a lot of ethnic wars. And while wars were going on, European countries looted the ressources, and still do.
Families having 8 kids in those countries do so because it's unlikely they'll all reach adulthood, and they don't have any contraceptive mean, because we let them die.
You can be sure in any poor countries struggling to survive, the wound goes deeper and is provoked by a richer countries taking advantage of the situation.


Most random people we know are nice, maybe. Even tho we've read on this forums people thinking "homeless people are just lazy fucks that deserve to be poor and sad", that's a pretty shitty mentality, and isn't every nice or sympathetic.
But that wasn't my point. I'm talking about people accessing to "decision-maker" places. You have to be cynical and egocentric to reach such positions, you need to "under-consider" humanbeings and see numbers, voters, profits, cutbacks etc... We're not talking about human politic anymore, in a "self-confident" liberal capitalism it's some human-ressources management.



now saahsaap ! (read my answer to cow as well it might answer some points you're adressing me)


Because that's not my goal to give you pre-thought solutions. There are plenty things to look at if you see the flaws of a system and have the will to think and improve it.
My own claim is "true democracies", but to reach a state of true democracie people need to think by themselves instead of waiting for a messiah to bring all the answers while they wallow in inaction, brain dead.


But we aren't in a well regulated capitalistic system at all. Our functioning isn't democratic enough for the people to regulate the system as it pleases them. Decisions are made in "high-spheres" of society and little people like you and I have nothing to say about it.


I agree on this, not ideologically but on the practical application.


You're not seeing the whole picture. If we changed the system the structures would change as well : a lot of current tiresome jobs would become useless, industry would be reduced a lot.


I'm not a pessimist dude, I'm the exact opposite. I make a constatation of our actual state and claim we could do way better that the actual waste we are, because I know that we developpe depending on our environment. Therefore changing it for the better would improve our vision and behaviour toward our surrounding and our fellow man.
I'm not fighting for "utopic ideas" (I hate this word), I fight for what is just and is reasonnably appliable, educating people and critical thinking, preparing the people for setting up the future real democracies.


Yep we have improved a lot, but once again, you can't attribute the speed of our improvement to our actual system. (re-read some post above)
Look at it this way : we can't know how advanced we would if we had a different system for the past decades, we might be less advanced, we might be more advanced, we might be exactly at the same point.
The late industrialization of the third world nations ain't necessarily a good thing when we come to the point we realize it's destroying our natural environment. You're defending the system from a pov late by a few decades. We presently know the impact and can't continue.
About the speed of our technological developpement : we could already have clean & endless energy (without fossil fuel) but it's being held back by the oil industry and politics because they'd lose profit and couldn't give as much money for politics' campaigns as they do now. Same thing for food, we could grow and eat bio clean food, but food lobbies like monsanto prevent it for profit, once again.


Yep, it can provide YOU all the things you need, but we could provide a lot more people considering our actual knowledge. That's my entire point, the fact that you presently live a good life doesn't mean the system is perfect and couldn't be improved for the rest of the world.
Evolution, once again, never stops. Politic and economy evolve and we have to make it so, all systems are bound to end one day or the other because all systems improve our life, knowledges and technology until the point we realize it served its time and we need a better one.


Paying damages won't "un-pollute" the river, as a class action suit won't "un-pollute" the air. Financial compensations are just a way to tell people "here's some money, now shut the fuck up and let us continue".


That's the case in France, if you can read french I can give you a serious article about it. I just extrapoled to the whole western countries because it must be pretty close. Chemical Industry is still an industry trying to sell their products like any other industry.


A country can be either capitalist or communist, not both. Capitalism with "communist" elements doesn't make it communism, it's at most an illusion because of their past communist culture, but it's essentialy a dictatorship. Nothing to do with communism anymore.


"Discussions" of uninterpreted links are boring and counter-constructive. And you graph made me laugh because we can interpret them in any way we want :
.1st graph : Are they mostly unfree because they have low GDP, or do they have low GDP because they are mostly unfree ?
.2nd graph : Passed Africa (where people are deep in shit because of western countries' politic) the happiness level doesn't have anything to do with the GDP, some people are "30% happier" (that made me laugh a lot, it makes no sense) than people having a GDP 4 times superior.
.3rd graph : Same thing as above, africa's deep in shit and the rest is pretty linear and have nothing to do with GDP.

Trying to calculate the happiness from a capital point of view is non-sense, we're a social specie, we need human contact, not a capital-specie needing bling-bling.