Originally Posted by
deprav
I don't think that's an issue. You can't make competitive mods and feel concerned about what players in public queues think. The longer a striking mod is, the more time players have to take a clear advantage and show a real domination on their opponent ; classic mods are too short and lack a feeling of accomplishment when you finish a fight. It's frustrating as hell.
I disagree, classic mods imo are about the right length, considering in a competitive system matches / duels are typically first to 3, having around 5 minute games, which is typical in classic mods gives a range of time from 15 minutes to 25 minutes, this is long enough and is about the amount of time that it should be, on the other hand the mods seen above can take 20 minutes per match, as they did when I was fighting Icky and Scorpio. This gives a total time of 1 hour - 1 hour 40 which is too long for the competitive scene.
That's why, ideally, the meta/goals of those mods should focus almost only on points (and DQ), and time shouldn't be a concern ; which is what we're trying to do with the Grand Opening tournament's format and win conditions.
If someone joins a competition or play on competitive lobby in order to win, you don't have to worry about keeping the queue "interested", the competition and trying to win and achieve something rewarding, and the material reward for doing so, is what primarily interest people. As for competitive lobbies, we've been told the amount of rooms isn't a concern anymore.
Of course you do, even if it is competitive, if it not enjoyable to this extent people will not stay. When you say people you mean you, most people in the community I think would agree that what they want is a ranking system that yes, finds the best player, but also isnt a chore to take part in. Playing a game should never feel boring or like work, whats the point in that?
Weird how ? I'd like concrete exemples or replays so I can see what people think is/was weird and either explain what happened or fix it if something is indeed weird.
Tho yes, it's different. The damage threshold + redistribution makes it way easier to defend your scoring parts, and way harder to score decent hits. It rebalances the whole meta of the striking mods. It's easier to defend, but it's WAY HARDER to play defensively AND score points when you camp because you mostly end up having poor positions to attack your opponent's scoring parts, and it's way easier for him to take the fight to you in a safe engaging-position and put his limbs inbetween a shitty readable position and his scoring parts.
shown below is a replay of me fighting Icky, there is another that I can upload but the end of the replay is glitched, throughout the replay, it is more clear if watched slowly, Icky is far more fluid and he strikes aiming for areas of my body, while I flail my limbs nearly disqualifying myself 3 times, despite this I win with a narrow point victory, while many of my hits miss completely.
2 times of note are around frame 800 where there is just an RNG pileup and I somehow come out on top from a point deficit and around frame 450, where if watched slowly I clearly was kicked in the head with a decent force yielding 0 points, which was odd. Icky was the better player, and lost.
Well, first those players weren't probably as good as you/they think they are. And second, the mods are pretty recent. Only a few players started assimilating the changes and adapted to them properly yet. It's kind of a fresh start, people have new things to learn to be able to play them in an optimal way.
Most players still play like they're playing the classic mods -since that's how they learned- and despite the fact you can still use the "classic style" effectively if done properly, it's been nerfed pretty hard.
see above
On all the matchs I have seen during the tourneys I hosted with those mods, even if the winner wasn't the better player or the one you expected, it always was the one who fought they best fight, and took the best decisions.
This was certainly not the case in the time where we were trying out the mods.
Also, I've said it a few times but best remind people : those mods aren't finalized yet, and won't be finalized as long as we can't apply the "damage to score threshold" to the "point trigger" system, in order to completely eliminate all remaining traces of rubbing damages and eventual random points outcome when clinching.
They also need to totally get rid of the "time" aspect and have a win condition of their own (win by reaching a pre-defined amount of points, aka "lifebar") in order to put the emphasis on the fight rather than keeping a point advantage and play the time (which is already harder with long matchframes).
But in the meantime [b]they're still more consistent and interesting to play than the classic mods.[.b]
In the consistency point, I found the opposite, as I said earlier my win rate was exactly 50/50 over 6 games, taking a total of just over 2 hours. Despite the fact that I am worse at striking than scorpio and Icky, 50% is exactly the least consistent it is possible to be.
On the "interest" point, this is, of course, entirely subjective but I found the opposite, it was new for the first 500 frames of the first match but afterwards it became tedious and a chore to play.
Those mods also serve a long term goal, which is having an eye-candy & public-friendly competitive scene. Grappling mods and kicking/hybrid mods are cool to play, but they're a boring mess to watch for the untrained eyes of a beginner. Like tk for instance, you understand what happens if you watch a match in direct-live and know what the mod is about, but the subtilities won't ever show on a replay, you just see 2 people rapidly flailing at each other and losing parts. Same for aikido mods, you can't completely appreciate the subtilities and the dynamic of the fight as a spectator.
With Striking mods it's a whole other story, high level fights are impressive, the longer turnframes make the movements clear and comprehensible by any audience, you see the dynamic, the hits, the dodges, the blocks, it looks neat as fuck, and if Toribash ever wants an appealing "e-sport" aspect, that's where the fuck it's at. It's hard, fun, challenging, consistent, and sweet to watch.
when competitive Dota or league is watched noobs dont understand whats going on exactly, with the steep learning curves and all the characters and items in the game. Does that make it uncompetitive or less good to watch? Not according to viewing figures and prize money when compared with other games.