Originally Posted by
deprav
But you're missing an important point : we're not going for "first to 3" or "first to 5" win condition, we're aiming to change the win condition for competitive striking mods to focus it on reaching a predefined amount of points rather than conserving a point advantage. And even if it's not possible with the tools we have right now, we're starting to shape the meta & rules around that idea.
Also, those mods can't take up to 20mins : (20 seconds*40 turns)/60= 13mins at max. But without the "first to X rounds" win condition, if you play it well it could actually take you less than 13 mins to reach the amount of points needed.
And even with a first to 3 system it would take approximatively 30mins.
this is not quite accurate, the game from the replay shown DID take 20 minutes.
Although yes the only turn time is 13 minutes 20 as you said, how many times have you pressed space and had it instantly go to your next turn with no wait or lag at all?
Me and Icky are across the world and both have particularly bad internet :P, especially him. Also there is the time where the replay actually plays and the playing time between turns, it all adds up.
30minutes is a huge underexageration too, that means not only were the games 3 minutes shorter than maximum, but the match finished 3-0, which in a similarly skilled matchup is not likely.
But yes, the purpose of the 40 turns is to suit our own competition format and win conditions, 20 turns is more reasonnable when it comes to classic format "first to X rounds".
Yes of course, but how are those mods boring ? Those mods deliver the most intense matchs I've played in a long time. The matchs are longer than usual ones but you don't have time to get bored, you constantly need to react and adapt to your opponent, it's a fight.
Intense and boring are all subjective, in the same way that you like wushu and striking and I dont you like this and I dont, talking subjectively not objectively wont get us anywhere D:, dont say I was the first to talk subjectively becauseshutup
I don't think we're watching the same replay ;p
Most of Icky's "hits" in this replays are pushes, he triggers his hits way too late which results in poor strenght at impact moment (you see the thresholds bar above the scores indicating the power of the hit). It's what happen on that kick around frame 400 you talked about.
He comes in in sloppy ways, with parts of his body super exposed, there's a part of the fight where his head ends up inbetween your thighs for quite some time, and his defense is pretty bad, he puts all he has on the attack. This is an exact exemple of what I was saying in my previous post : the way he hits (starting at very close distance resulting in push rather than hit) is a symptom of the classic mods, same for the "clinch" part, he tries to "scissor/pinch" you, but those are not HITS, and therefore score shit or no points. He plays the "classic style", as you can see it works as he does score some points and move around, but it's not as OP as it was before, the skillcap has been raised and players must adapt.
On the other hand, YOU actually played the HITS. You get 2 pretty nice head hits and one almost-crotch in. You sure made mistakes (like giving him 10 points by launching your head on his fist xD), but you're overhaul less sloppy than Icky on that replay, even if you end up with your face in dangerous position 2 or 3 times, his hits are too weak to be any dangerous at this distance. Icky was NOT the better player, you guys both made big mistakes, but you clearly got the best hits.
asfdrfg youre missing the point, I didnt know what I was pressing or have any reason for pressing it except for it looked spinny, icky had a plan sortofish
As for the clinch situation without random-ish outcomes, it's not particular to my set of mods, it's actually less random and punishing on my mods. With the classic point system you would end up with hundred of thousands of points, with one player having +50K points than the other for no particular reason, which is pretty much impossible to catch up.
Thresholds and point distribution lower the "rubbing damages" causing randomness during clinch situation, even if it doesn't suppress it completely there's no huge insurmontable point difference after a clinch.
a 30 point jump comparitively is as much or more imo than 50k in normal lenshu, 1 big head hit can get you that much but to be fair I cant unto lenshu
The only way to totally get rid of those random points during a clinch is, once again, "Damage threshold" + "Point trigger", which can't be used together yet.
That's what I explain above and in my previous post. Icky and Scorpio probably are good in classic mods, Icky shows a pretty classic demonstration in that replay. But they're average in my striking mods, they didn't go past what they already knew from their "classic knowledge", which is why you guys had 50/50 win rate, the classic playstyle is nerfed, and you're totally decent at striking from what I saw in that replay. Have some self-confidence !
My point isn't that all competitive games must be nice to watch, my point is that Toribash has this particularity and should strongly use it. You create movement, you play to win and it results in a unique animation, and matchs NEVER look alike. It's a unique game creating very graphical and unique replays, I don't understand why you wouldn't promote that aspect of the game when it's obviously its core idea.
It is true that this mod does give nice replays, shame both my nice ones are glitched as shown below: I didnt dq and uke = Scorp
EDIT :
You can't sound the depth of a competitive mod with just 500 frames tho. If it became tedious after a short while it's probably because you guys tried to play the same old classic way, and it probably felt disappointing to see the poor results it gives.
I dont even know what calssic style is how can I have tried to do it D
