Originally Posted by
Smaguris
That is extremely wrong. Moving at the same time is massively more complicated than taking turns. You can't even compare chess to Toribash because of how primitive chess is in comparison. Imagine if in a first turn of Toribash your opponent was T-posing and not moving at all. You would most certainly decap or otherwise gain a huge advantage over your opponent, this is how much different it is.
Yeah my wording was retarded they're obviously not the same, I just meant that they're both reaction-based. Sure there is always an element of unpredictability in Toribash, but at least in ABD you can usually tell when someone is going for a kick or a flying knee etc. and it wouldn't be very difficult for an AI to recognize. I fail to see why the AI couldn't just prepare for the ideal move (what it would do in their situation) as this is exactly what top players do and are usually successful (at least I would assume). Some of the best Toribash players play with intuition rather than analyzing their opponent too heavily as well.
Originally Posted by
Smaguris
There are actually several factors that would make this AI harder to develop than the DOTA one. Just think about this simple concept: in Dota, let's say, an enemy attacks the AI with a skillshot. Using its processing power the AI can make a split second calculation on how to dodge that skillshot, and also if it can fire anything back meanwhile. Now if you look at similar scenario in toribash, the combat works in much more limited way, because both players play out their set of moves at the same time, which doesn't give space for any perfectly calculated moves or counters. In basic terms, Dota can be almost 100% calculated, while Toribash is a game of guessing and predicting. Even if AI knew the joint states of the opponent, it wouldn't help unless it was real time states, something like realtimeghost.
Now when you factor that in, and how Dota AIs were being trained on 100,000 CPUs at the same time, you can realise how big of a scale this project would have to be.
I'm not going to claim to know a lot about machine learning, but I do know a lot about Dota. Skill shots are an extremely small component of Dota and OpenAI themselves stated that their bot is coded to have the reaction time of an average human to not make it unfair. Also, OpenAI purposely created an extremely vague neural network so that it could be reused for purposes other than being good at a video game which would not be an issue for a Toribash AI, and would speed up the process exponentially.
I may be understating how hard a Toribash AI would be to make without insane amounts of resources, but there is no way it can be more complex than Dota. There are so many mechanics that their AI had to perfect in order to beat the best players in the world. Abusing hero turn rate, keeping creep equilibrium,
predicting where the enemy would be when they're under fog of war, etc. Their AI actually taught the best players new 1v1 strategies.