Well if the meta is defined by hyper aggression, you're sort of an idiot to try to play a deck that has weak board clear, weak board pressure, and gets off on late game value.

Ergo Priest haha


Maybe. We will see. Things aren't refined yet so metas tend to be punishing until slower decks figure out how slow is too slow

Well I can honestly say sorry to Azze, I was wrong.

Quest Rogue might be among the top of quests to complete.

As the meta stands today, Pirate Warrior and Quest Rogue define the meta, and the meta is speed. Worth mentioning Trump lost to a turn 3 lethal on ladder yesterday against a hunter because of how insane that 2 mana 3/2 adapt a friendly beast card is. The "slowest" deck that makes sense right now is Elemental Shaman.

Worth mentioning that one of the top ranked legends on ladder right now is a guy playing exclusively taunt quest warrior, but he may be an outlier.

Again - too early to tell. Aggro always thrives at the very very beginning of the season of any new card rotation.


-----



Edit:

To be clear, I don't think Quest Rogue is OP. They apparently have really bad matchups against aggro decks. My problem is that the card design that Blizzard's created has turned into the worst form of Rock Paper Scissors.

Control should beat aggro, because it has tons of mana efficient tools to deal with the board.

Aggro should beat combo, because it forces combos to use it's win condition to deal with the board.

Combo should beat control, because most of Control's cards are dead. They interact with the board when combo decks generally don't attempt to have a board. Combo decks play from hand.


So what you should have are 3 decks, with 50% win rate against their own archetypes, and like... idk 65% win rate against the archetype it "counters", and 35% ish win rate against the deck that's designed to counter you. Regardless, the game should be interactive

Making decisions. The more decisions that can be made, the more making the right decision matters, the more skill matters, the less luck matters. Which... should be the objective of a card game.

So first Blizzard cheated this 50% deal by saying "Well Aggro vs. Reno is like 50% win rate, so it's fair!". The problem is, they achieved said winrate because that's approximately the percent chance you have of drawing reno by turn 6, and not being dead by turn 6. Which isn't fun and interactive.

Not to mention, you have Jade with literally infinite value. So you can't really ladder with a control deck because you can lose to combo decks, and you're guaranteed to lose to Jade Decks.



Fast forward to now:

Literally any deck can lose to aggro if the draws happen.

Un'Goro gave us a bunch of tools to deal with aggro.

Using those tools means you get annihilated by quest rogue.

So it's... rock paper scissors. Without interaction. You either are aggro to beat quest rogue, quest rogue to beat anything that's game plan is slower than "win by turn 6", and SOMEHOW supposedly control decks should beat aggro. But the ratios are disproportionate as shit. Every deck has much higher fail rate than ever before because blizzard's front loading important useful effects on legendary minions, meaning whether you win or lose so much more based off draw RNG than ever before. And the game costs a fuckton more, because archetypes are now defined by 2 or so class specific legendaries on top of any neutral legendaries that are just generally autoinclude (like say Bloodmage Thalnos)

So now, even aggro has a huge fail rate. Both the fail rate imposed by their own deck by drawing properly (having the weapon, having the murloc or pirate synergy, not drawing patches, etc.) and the fail rated imposed by their opponent's deck which is : will they draw the card that my deck literally can't afford to play against (which was Reno). Combo decks have even larger fail rates than before because you need even more combo pieces and can afford even less cycle cards. And control decks have even larger fail rates than before because sometimes you queue into druid and you literally lose anyways no matter what.

There was a time where the fast decks like Zoo ran like... 12 1 drops. And maybe 8 2 drops? So 20 of your 30 cards were playable almost immediately. So it was consistent... and thus we could balance around it.. and it was fair. Nowadays you'd be dumb to use those ratios, but to not use those ratios means your deck is inconsistent as shit.


So there you go, the game's design forces you to play a bunch of cards in a manner that's inconsistent as shit because if you don't you'll lose to the stupid wombo combos, and you'll lose if you don't pull off the wombo combo, and control feels pointless because of jade, and sometimes aggro just wins by turn 3 or 4 anyways. That's Hearthstone atm.

Again, optimistic people crack the code on this issue with the cards at hand, but there's no proof of that yet.

Hey guys so I recently started playing Hearthstone, fun as hell. So I'm trying to make a C'thun Hunter deck so obviously I open the Old God's pack and I unblox a legendary, Cho'gall but I don't know how to use him so should I either

A)Disenchant it and carry on with my Hunter C'thun Deck.
B)Make a mean Cho'gall Warlock deck but you guys will help me with that.
C)Disenchant and switch to another hero unless I Switch to warlock and it's B.

I really want to come back to this and reformulate, you can complete the quest by TURN 1 if you go 2nd. If you draw 2 same cards (let's say 2 dusk boars) and 1 shadowstep, when your turn comes if you draw the other shadowstep you can complete the quest that first turn you have. If your luck is over 9000 and you draw prep your next turn, that meaning turn 2 you can play crystal core fucking turn 2 and if your previous 2 minions didn't die, you have 2 5/5s in turn 2 and you can flood the board with 5/5s from turn 3.

i would not recommend c'thun hunter. If I were you, I'd disenchant cho'gall and use the dust to craft some other core cards for another deck.

Not sure how long you've been playing/how many of the core cards you have. I think a relatively cheap deck to build right now is zoo, which is a warlock deck. I would give that a try, even though cho'gall doesn't fit in that deck.

After playing more than like 100 games with quest rogue, i simply can't understand why people complain about this deck. I played all the fucking day with it and i faced only 1 or 2 quest rogues, the rest? FUCKING FACE HUNTER AND AGGRO DRUID WHAT THE FUCK?! How can you complain about quest rogue when i'm dead by turn 4 or 5 to aggro druid/face hunter? Vs pirate warrior i still have a little chance to comeback, but vs these atrocious decks i cant do shit with it. Quest rogue is absolute shit if the draw is bad. By the end of the day i lost 90% of my matches because i simply couldnt draw what i needed, i swear to god i wanted to punch my monitor.

Heartstone community is fucked up, again, QUEST ROGUE is good only if your draws are good, this deck is not cancerous at all because you have to think a little bit about your plays and also you have to depend on lucky draws. Any other quest is far more easy to do. Yes, i agree that if you draw completly insane or at least decent this quest is the best, but if you dont it's absolute crap. So i really hope heartstone community will stop crying about this deck and cry about the real cancer out there on the ladder.

1) You can Tech your Quest Rogue deck with stuff like Bilefin Tidehunter to take much less damage in your early game. Spawning like, 2 taunts a turn really mitigates how much face damage can be done.

2) Face damage and hyper aggro is the counter to Quest Rogue

3) The prevalence of hyper aggressive decks is a response to the Quest Rogue meta.


So in Hearthstone, when a new expansion comes out, all decks are pretty fair game. Nobody knows what works best and in what ratio.

But as some decks prove to be more prevalent than others, a rock paper scissors meta forms.

a) Quest Rogue is really good, beats a lot of stuff, play Quest Rogue

Okay now Quest Rogue is destroying Deathrattle Priest, Quest Hunter, Buff Paladin, and quest mage. So a lot of people play quest rogue.

Oh man now there's a lot of quest rogues? How do I win in this meta?

b) Aggro beats quest rogue. So I'll be aggro druid, I'll be pirate warrior, I'll be face hunter. I'll beat all these quest rogue players and climb like that.

So okay now we got tons of quest rogues poaching players and aggro decks poaching the quest rogues. Now you got your ass kicked by an aggro deck for the last time and say I NEED TO BEAT THE AGGRO

c) Taunt Warrior. That's it. Tired of losing by turn 4, I'm playing taunt warrior. So you play taunt warrior to beat the aggro decks that are out there trying to poach the quest rogues.


And what you end up with, is a meta triangle. If Hearthstone was a well designed game, that'd be fine. Because if it were a well designed game, shit like Taunt Warrior vs. Face Hunter would require both players to make intelligent decisions to win. But it's not :c

Oh tell me about how people like savjz literally get top10 legend ranks with shit like recruit paladin. Of course there will be a meta structure in any given cardgame. Even RTS games like starcraft have a similar structure.

Sure pirate warrior and murlocs are a bit anti fun but the meta is currently super vibrant and so many things are viable. In the end there will always be hard counters, but complaining about counters in a TGC is like complaining about the sun getting up. That's the way cardgames work.

Ele shaman, pirate and taunt warrior, ele/jade shaman, quest and miracle rogue, midrange paladin and murloc architypes (and many more) are currently viable for ladder play. To say that hearthstone is not a well designed game while having so many viable decktypes is pure bs.

I'm currently playing with a version of recruit paladin and I am absolutely loving it. Teching the deck to counter most aggro (unless perfect draw) while still keeping lategame makes it possible to win against any deck type, granted I manage to play well. Complaining about the current meta just feels weird to me after only jade druid, renomage/lock and pirate warrior were a thing

I'll focus on the bolded.

1) Just because the game has elements of luck doesn't mean you can't be good at understanding statistics and yield good results in the long run. I never said that wasn't the case of Hearthstone. Most people who hit legend, hit it again way easier. Pro players have pretty much never been denied legend by luck in literally any season. That doesn't mean the game isn't poorly designed.

2) There are tons of decks from different classes that can be piloted to legend. That is true. That still doesn't mean the game isn't poorly designed.

3) This meta isn't worse than last meta, I didn't say that. Last meta was obnoxious.


I'm saying Hearthstone, as a whole, has recently decided to make shitty design choices. Those design choices usually place a larger emphasis on draw RNG than before. I'm also saying that many decks create not very fun and interactive matchups. Because interacting with your opponent is fun, and fun is good, I want more of that. Yes... I'm fully aware freeze mage has existed since the dinosaurs and that's not exactly fun and interactive.

Hearthstone, within the last few card expansions, has made draw order matter at an all time high.

Part of that has to include with the text that Reno, Kazakus, etc. read. 1 of everything in your deck means less draw consistency. Part of that means cards that are such conditionally so much more valuable when they hit a criteria (like a 3/4 bloodsail cultist who needs you to both have a pirate alive and a weapon alive to get her effect which can cause arcanite reaper to go from 10 damage over 2 turns to 18 damage in 3 turns for example). Part of that means blizzards hope to force new archetypes is making interesting card effects legendary, which means card RNG to draw it, like say clutchmother in discard lock.

The point is, drawing the right cards in the right order in a game filled with one ofs, makes for an experience of highly emphasized top decking and that's not enjoyable. And watching your opponent play single player while you have nothing to interact with isn't fun either. When you combine those problems, AND decks tending to be more expensive in dust than before outside of Control Warrior AND packs cost more money now, I disagree with Blizzard's recent Hearthstone design choices.

Having said ALL of that - Whispers of the Old Gods in my opinion was the best expansion ever. And I am enjoying Un'Goro for what it is. I play it when I need to relax and just have fun

Complaining about reno is quite weird when reno isn't in standard anymore.

I would even argue that card draw is significantly less important in the current expansion since there is so much discover and meaningful RNG mechanics. Playing around and with the RNG/Discover mechanics creates so much variety and makes individual draw far less important. Also since the meta has slowed down for the most parts significantly (ungoro gave massive amounts of anti aggro tools) I don't understand when you say that there is less interaction.

Yeah shit draw will ruin the game and perfect draw will win you the game.
That's just how it is. Want no RNG or draw to have no effect, go play chess.