naaah, these newly formed rules in this case are not essential to the operation of the forums. they are a form of improving the community, but they are not part of the core structure of the clan system. since the clans system was present before these rules and there was barely any negative feedback (i don't have access to the PMs sent to the clan mods but i have never seen any thread like this before), we can assume that.

in that case, making an exception to the rule for the (arguably deserving) clans would not be making the rules irrelevant, it would be more of a VIP status. the catch here is whether a clan is deserving of that immunity (what would the criteria be, would it be based on the contributions of the clan as a whole or the members, it's relevance etc.) and whether this immunity is a good idea. you can argue if it is for the better or worse of the community, but you can't really say that it makes the rules necessarily irrelevant.

It seems that there are quite a bit of people who think (and I'm paraphrasing here) "We can't make an exception, historical/legendary clans can't stay alive just because we don't want them to be deleted. We shouldn't be bias."

My question I ask to those who feel that way is this: Is there really nothing a clan can do to be an exception? Do we live in a place where exceptional people and clans can't earn the right to be an exception?

I happen to think some clans have earned the right. In my mind, some people have volunteered enough hours for their community, brought enough joy into the lives of others selflessly, and acted as icons to promote the future of Toribash enough that I'm fine with them getting a relaxed place, of little moderation, to talk among their international friends from time to time. That's what clan boards can be. I don't think it sends the wrong message to other clans, I think it says "Hey, new clan that just became official, look what some have accomplished. If you work extremely hard, maybe one day you can be this too."

We eternalized players that have made profound impact on this game by making them Legendary. I think the Legendary program founded was and is an amazing tool, and a fantastic way for Toribash to give back to those they loved and hold to high regard. So all I can say is I'm excited for the possibility, as Gynx alluded to in his remarks (Which by the way, I'm extremely grateful he took the time to post in here), of the existence of Legendary clans. Watching historic clans get activity check after activity check as they frantically sum up members to say "WTF we're still here" is like watching my Grandpa try to get out of the love seat. It takes him like 15 minutes, he makes a bunch of weird noises, and I'd prefer to just get to Publix and bring him back his sub sandwich.

So what makes RAWR different from this rule? Post count and activity is one thing but like they stated they participate in the community and clan activities such as the Clan League every year.

If we kill clans we should be a little more lenient, such as looking at if there is a possible chance that they are alive.

I don't really seek change the system entirely, but we need know where the line is and how these actions affect not only the community but the users in the clan.

Why keep around a clan when they are only together for one single event? It's like asking to not repeat a school year in high school because you were only present for one class.

It's not a matter of pissing someone off, it's just that the clan could easily be re-added back if hampa were to notice. Plus, spirit hasn't been "untouched", if you were to look.

Spirit's already been killed, that happened a while ago. You can note the lack of clan tag on suo's posts.

*EDIT* Damnit hanz0! Let a man write an essay before you ninja him!

The logical clan to point fingers at would be mine since top of the tree = biggest most obvious target; thing is it wouldn't work because it aint immune. Also people forget I exist so yeah

K so I've been observing this, much like I observe everything else & finally decided to speak out on behalf of my slaves... and to maybe clear some stuff up.

I'll kick off explaining the MAD thing. Technically speaking MAD aint a clan, it's got a clan tag and a handful of people, however its purpose isn't as a clan - devs need a means of testing things, and if that involves testing something that requires being in a clan then they're good to go. So yeah, it's best to just ignore it's existence.

Now that's out the way I'll clear up things.

Staff bias on staff clans?

Doesn't exist. As already stated suo's clan got killed, and since they were the 1st CL winners + the reason Demon exits I'm pretty sure they fall into the historical category too. However they died.

"Immune" clans?

That was a thing until not too long ago. It covered clans that have devs & the upper end of the game's staff in them; and also old or as you lot put it "legendary clans".
Then people bitched and moaned. "Why is my clan being killed when [insert previously immune clan] has been inactive for months?" "That's not fair." "That's bias" and so on.
So it was decided that immunity would be dropped for all normal clans (MAD not being classed as normal), including ones with staff in them that were previously immune.
In other words - no one's safe. But I'll come back to this.

Why kill clans if their boards etc aren't being physically killed?

If a clan isn't active enough on the various things they're checked on they get killed after failing multiple times in a row, that we've established. The tag is killed off, members are set free, and in some cases the world ends and everyone cries... *cough*
However that isn't necessarily the end, a killed clan can rebuild itself, and in the process regain it's old board. There's also the "historical" factor so if a clan dies and stays dead the existence of the clan isn't lost, if that makes sense.

Gynx is evil

Gynx answers to me, the removal of clan immunity had to go through me, which in turn has resulted in this. No point shouting at him, it's rude to kill the messenger.

Baaaw RAWR baaaaawwwwww! Urban NOOOOoooo...

If you're in one of the clans affected by this then you can skip this part.
If not then where were you when every other old/historical clan died? I'm not aiming to be a dick when I say that, but I didn't see you fighting for them. If it's took you this long and this many clan deaths to notice then is it something that really affects you? >_>

For those affected in the clans

A clan dying doesn't change who you are, or any impact the clan had in the past - things are remembered. People are remembered.
I'm not going to argue over activity, if a clan has consistently failed then there's clearly issues in that regard - more so in older clans since you don't actively recruit new members and end up with a large roster of inactive people. It's just the way things are.
As stated above, this isn't the end. A clan can be rebuilt if you're willing to "work" for it, and if you're not then you can either carry on without clans or walk into another - I'm pretty sure there's no one who'd turn you down & you've got plenty of friends in other corners of the community.

Other things and words and stuff

I'll happily say that if we hadn't got our shit together, my clan would be on the chopping block right now. Instead of letting it die we're working on keeping it alive because it's our corner of the community that we built.
Hyde stated that Evil had to do the same, it faced death and with a bit of help from others is still alive.

Something something LEGENDARY CLANS

Something is being thought up regarding this, however it will not involve immunity for them - we can't do that now without reviving every dead legendary clan, it just doesn't work that way.
If you scroll through this you'll notice clan league winners have icons, and MAD has a TB logo because devs etc. It's most likely that something will happen akin to that or somewhere else as a memorial to them.
We can't keep things alive just because of history, that way every clan would go stale and after a time end up in the same boat.
/me shrugs
We'll figure something out on that front.

So yeah. It aint all bad, in the case of RAWR if killed they only need 5 people (of which a minimum of 3 must have been in the clan originally) and a handful of TC to make a come back. Apply the same to any other clan. The upside being that they wouldn't have a roster of inactive people contributing towards negative activity checks in the future.

Now that's done I'm going to go pick on Ryan for being Ryan, and I may decide to reply to posts on here later if people aren't playing white knight for the sake of white knight.

Would be neat if you let them keep their clan tag but just move their board from Official Clans to the regular Clan Discussion board (keep their official tags ingame too or maybe bring back the [-*insertclannamehere*] tag for inactive official clans idk) so they could continue being a clan and competed in events like Clan League if they wished, etc (if they're truly dead then move them to Dead Clan list but obviously UrbanUnit and RAWR are not dead they still have members that come online every now and then and do shit).

Killing a clan doesn't mean all of its achievements and legacy will die with it. Both RAWR and UrbanUnit have well established their places in Toribash, and dead clan boards are still viewable. Besides, it's not like anyone new will be in either of the clans soon, they both aren't really looking for new members.

Nope & nope!

1. If the tag was "free" then reviving clans wouldn't work, someone else would swoop in and take it because people are dicks.
2. 99% of the reason a clan dies is because the members are inactive - in some cases for a number of years; so that's also null.

Zelda's getting the basic idea. It encourages clans to look after themselves & it's healthier for them. If we left them all sat there we'd have a few hundred inactive & verging on dead, and only 10 or so active ones.

As I stated before something will be sorted for "legendary clans", though it'll no doubt be followed by outrage over them getting preferential treatment again. >_>

It's fun how you spark the discussion after someone highlights the issues with the activity checks, but then again you are held to such high standards. Especially as you had such a useful response to when missuse asked why this system is in place, in January.

http://forum.toribash.com/showpost.p...04&postcount=5

Tho' I guess it's better late then never, especially when it comes to activity checks. Damn, I hate double standards.