Originally Posted by Ragdollmaster
Before I go on in this debate, Odlov, I'd like you to clarify something for me- to what extent do you want nudity to be accepted? Should it just be something that isn't illegal, or something that's readily tolerated, or something that's more or less a normal habit for society?
I want it to be accepted. Hard to place a 'degree' on something like that.....Generally if something isn't illegal, it becomes readily tolerated in time. I'd start there. Propagation of it will come naturally if people actually take to it. If not, then whatever. At least those who want to display nudity won't get in legal trouble for it.
Originally Posted by Ragdollmaster
So more or less, abolishing laws that penalize people for public nudity. The thing is these exist because the majority of people in any given country, save for maybe the Netherlands and some other liberal European countries, believe public nudity is a breach of common modesty and they're shocked/alarmed/angered when they see it. Maybe it's all based on misconceptions, maybe they're angered for no real reason, but the point stands; they don't want to see it, and until they're convinced otherwise, those laws will remain in place. Just getting rid of those laws won't directly encourage people to run around in the nude; social pressure will keep many people from 'coming out of the closet' so to speak, and there might be outright violence, if not rioting, over the issue.
The point is, regardless of all the underlying scientific facts etc, people in the US and other 'developed' countries usually have negative views on nudity and it's a very controversial topic. At the very best, in our lifetimes, nudist colonies might 'expand' so to say and nudity would be more tolerated in our country while there would still be some restrictive laws, like "You must wear clothes when at work" etc.
Remember, you can't just take the people who want to run around nude into account, there's all those people who don't want to see that. True, you always have two sides in an argument, but public nudity is really a landslide... I'd say 95% of people living in developed countries are against nudity.
I'm just saying what i want to see; what i envision to be a healthy and logical view of our bodies. I know our current outlooks. They are a result of years of tradition and enforced superstition (see Samule above). It'd be hard to change those outlooks, but i believe it's happening (starting with Europe).
Also, to be honest, I can't see where this debate is going...
Thanks for your input
At least it's better than stale board. See, i just posted it several hours back and already there are 4 pages. Made people think.
Last edited by Odlov; Jan 2, 2010 at 04:03 AM.
I have to say I side with Odlov on this one. Its not that clothing is bad, or that people should be naked in public, but the general underlying feeling towards nudity is that it is something to be ashamed of. In my opinion it is part of a larger human condition issue, the basis of which revolves around us hating ourselves as much as we can.
This sort of thinking IS huge in the U.S. but it is even worse in strictly Muslim nations where the aforementioned Burkas are a law. You could blame the bulk of it on religion, but you also have to remember that religion is a product of humanity, and one that sprung about in us with very little, if any, outside motivation, we are naturally drawn to it to explain things. How exactly being naked became bad because such and such God/Gods said so is beyond me, but it IS there and it really DOESNT make any sense.
I have yet to read a single argument for the taboo on nudity that cannot be easily over turned, or that isn't based on an outlandish misunderstanding of the original claim. The fact is, people are afraid of how we look naked. All protection measures aside, there is no logical reason to be ashamed of how you naturally look. Maybe you shouldn't go to the store nude, but I'm guessing most people feel uncomfortable looking in the mirror, by themselves, if they are naked, and that makes absolutely no sense.
Another problem, also mentioned earlier, is that we fear that nudity will somehow poison the minds of the people who see it. Whether its is kids, or adults seeing it, it has a stigma to it that probably does far more harm than if it were common place in our lives and NOT something to be afraid of. When you tell people "No" they will almost always do it anyways, even if they hate themselves while they are doing it and believe they are sick, they will do it. If it were more common place however, it would lose a large amount of its taboo/against the rules sort of draw, the product of which actually can cause problems and, in my opinion, lead to perversions that can be harmful to the greater population.
EDIT:
Dude, I saw your pictures, you are far from the level of obesity that is almost normal in the US. And from what I have gathered at least some of the obesity I am describing comes from the fact that people who are morbidly obese feel invisible and ignored in the larger whole of society. So, while it is a stretch, he did have something of a point there...a long shot , I admit.
This sort of thinking IS huge in the U.S. but it is even worse in strictly Muslim nations where the aforementioned Burkas are a law. You could blame the bulk of it on religion, but you also have to remember that religion is a product of humanity, and one that sprung about in us with very little, if any, outside motivation, we are naturally drawn to it to explain things. How exactly being naked became bad because such and such God/Gods said so is beyond me, but it IS there and it really DOESNT make any sense.
I have yet to read a single argument for the taboo on nudity that cannot be easily over turned, or that isn't based on an outlandish misunderstanding of the original claim. The fact is, people are afraid of how we look naked. All protection measures aside, there is no logical reason to be ashamed of how you naturally look. Maybe you shouldn't go to the store nude, but I'm guessing most people feel uncomfortable looking in the mirror, by themselves, if they are naked, and that makes absolutely no sense.
Another problem, also mentioned earlier, is that we fear that nudity will somehow poison the minds of the people who see it. Whether its is kids, or adults seeing it, it has a stigma to it that probably does far more harm than if it were common place in our lives and NOT something to be afraid of. When you tell people "No" they will almost always do it anyways, even if they hate themselves while they are doing it and believe they are sick, they will do it. If it were more common place however, it would lose a large amount of its taboo/against the rules sort of draw, the product of which actually can cause problems and, in my opinion, lead to perversions that can be harmful to the greater population.
EDIT:
Originally Posted by Dalir
I hope you realize that you're talking to an obese person right now.
Dude, I saw your pictures, you are far from the level of obesity that is almost normal in the US. And from what I have gathered at least some of the obesity I am describing comes from the fact that people who are morbidly obese feel invisible and ignored in the larger whole of society. So, while it is a stretch, he did have something of a point there...a long shot , I admit.
Last edited by deady; Jan 3, 2010 at 03:18 AM.
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