Originally Posted by Kozmonaut
I would have voted for ted cruz if he hadn't dropped out, trump is my second choice. We don't need hillary starting world war 3, simple as that.
Why do you think Hillary would be more likely to start a world war than Trump (the dude that gets baited on Twitter)? The opposite of what you said is commonly thrown around as a reason for supporting Hillary.
Originally Posted by Mallymkun
As a libertarian, minarchist to be exact, Gary Johnson is obviously the best choice for me. However, it's stupid to pretend that this election isn't between Trump and Clinton, and I would do anything at this point to stop Clinton. I like Ben Shapiro, but I don't believe in his philosophy that you should always vote for the candidate with the most similar views. A circumstance such as this requires absolute strategic thinking.
Speaking strategically then, why is it more necessary to stop Clinton than to stop Trump?
A point I'd like to make is that Clinton is a rational actor. Trump, not so much. Clinton is the status quo incarnate. If she gets in, things will continue along the same path as they have under Obama. Trump's volatile and doesn't play by a script. We call people like him 'irrational' actors. Giving an irrational actor control of the world's largest military and nuclear weapon reserves, to me at least, sounds like it might not be a good idea.
There's an argument to be made that regardless of who's in charge, foreign policy remains the same. In other words, the president doesn't really decide on these thing. In that case, an irrational actor in the white house would be slightly less damaging. America would still be the world's laughing stock, though.
Last edited by Ele; Jun 26, 2016 at 02:57 AM.
I'm equally scared of Trump and Clinton foreign policy wise - Hillary Clinton is on the books as currently wanting a "No-fly Zone" in Syria, was a driving force behind Libya and was completely against any Iran talks before they were proven to be effective (after which she changed her stance). Trump on the other hand... the guy is so reactionary and petty nothing would surprise me. Not only that, but he's also on the books as supporting torture even "if it doesn't work" and wants to "go after their families;" referring to suspected terrorists. Nothing like turning the good ole' USA into a terror state in order to... fight... terrorism? wait.. something's wrong here....
With NATO forces moving up towards Russian borders, this isn't the time that I really want either of them in charge of a military.
The only outstanding thing that scares me about Trump is any possible supreme court positions he'd be able to nominate people to. His energy plan is shit but... that's 4 years and we can backpedal on that. His tax plan is also shit, but we can backpedal on that too (I sincerely doubt either of them would get reelected for a second term - but maybe I put too much faith in the American people).
All things considered I'd just say fuck it and stick it to the American establishment by telling everyone I know to vote 3rd party. Imo Trump and Hillary are almost equally bad (with exception maybe to supreme court picks on the Trump side - not that any Hillary picks would be by any means good), so we might as well TRY to bring more attention to the current third parties and hopefully get them on more state ballots next election and/or a larger share of the votes. I see this election as an opportunity to prepare for a bumpy ride and vote your passions instead of your fears, because in this election it might actually mean something. (5% of the popular vote in this election gives parties federal funding next election - and the more exposure for the Libertarian and Green parties the better). There's always the hope that enough people can be swayed to put either Johnson or Stein in the debates, which would give them serious attention and support.
With NATO forces moving up towards Russian borders, this isn't the time that I really want either of them in charge of a military.
The only outstanding thing that scares me about Trump is any possible supreme court positions he'd be able to nominate people to. His energy plan is shit but... that's 4 years and we can backpedal on that. His tax plan is also shit, but we can backpedal on that too (I sincerely doubt either of them would get reelected for a second term - but maybe I put too much faith in the American people).
All things considered I'd just say fuck it and stick it to the American establishment by telling everyone I know to vote 3rd party. Imo Trump and Hillary are almost equally bad (with exception maybe to supreme court picks on the Trump side - not that any Hillary picks would be by any means good), so we might as well TRY to bring more attention to the current third parties and hopefully get them on more state ballots next election and/or a larger share of the votes. I see this election as an opportunity to prepare for a bumpy ride and vote your passions instead of your fears, because in this election it might actually mean something. (5% of the popular vote in this election gives parties federal funding next election - and the more exposure for the Libertarian and Green parties the better). There's always the hope that enough people can be swayed to put either Johnson or Stein in the debates, which would give them serious attention and support.
Last edited by pouffy; Jun 26, 2016 at 04:39 AM.
I'm voting Trump over Hillary, first election that I feel so strongly against a candidate that I'll vote for someone I don't like just to CB the other candidate.
Some of my reasoning:
1) Hillary, adopting Bernie's economic plan, means raising minimum wage to somewhere between $12.50-$15, which our economy simply is no where near ready for. That's a big hit to small businesses that can't afford to pay employees that. Job market is already over saturated from older people hanging onto jobs way longer and general retirement age shooting up. This only makes it even harder to get entry level jobs.
2) Like Ele said, a vote for Hillary is a vote for the status quo. I'm not satisfied with our government as it stands right now, and I don't think having 8 more years of it is within my best interest. She's essentially Obama, which goes to point 3.
3) She's playing the minority card. So frustrating. People pointing at themselves and saying "look! I'm a minority! Wouldn't it be cool if we proved there's no glass ceiling?!?" as a way to convince people to vote for her ticks me off. I want the most qualified person in office that serves my needs, I don't want anyone to siphon votes because of skin color or genitalia.
4) I'm against yet another Clinton in the white house for the same reason I wouldn't vote for Jeb Bush - I'm tired of these "Royal Families". This is the best we have? This is the greatest and brightest leaders and job creators? Clintons and Bushes? C'mon.
5) Hillary Clinton is yet another politician owned by money. This is a big one for me, I don't like politicians in the pockets of the business people who get her there. Trump is a huge win in this category and it's hard to shake.
6) I think people have a right to be scared shitless of Trump. He gets pissed off easily, he's irrational, he's in many ways a buffoon, and it'd be cool for the US to be a country you don't want to piss off. Our defense spending is already astronomical. If we're going to have this unbelievably powerful and expensive military forces, we need to use it strategically.
7) I hate Obamacare and Hillary is acting like it's something to be proud of. Ask most people in the medical field (my co-workers included), and they can tell you just how asinine this system is and how it's ruining the healthcare system.
So do I hate Trump? Yeah kinda. Is he a racist? Probably. Sexist? check. Zero experience? Damn straight. More likely to start WW3 than Hillary? Youbetcha. But I hate him less than Clinton and I want to see this country get back to free markets, looser regulations, and ass-kickin'
Some of my reasoning:
1) Hillary, adopting Bernie's economic plan, means raising minimum wage to somewhere between $12.50-$15, which our economy simply is no where near ready for. That's a big hit to small businesses that can't afford to pay employees that. Job market is already over saturated from older people hanging onto jobs way longer and general retirement age shooting up. This only makes it even harder to get entry level jobs.
2) Like Ele said, a vote for Hillary is a vote for the status quo. I'm not satisfied with our government as it stands right now, and I don't think having 8 more years of it is within my best interest. She's essentially Obama, which goes to point 3.
3) She's playing the minority card. So frustrating. People pointing at themselves and saying "look! I'm a minority! Wouldn't it be cool if we proved there's no glass ceiling?!?" as a way to convince people to vote for her ticks me off. I want the most qualified person in office that serves my needs, I don't want anyone to siphon votes because of skin color or genitalia.
4) I'm against yet another Clinton in the white house for the same reason I wouldn't vote for Jeb Bush - I'm tired of these "Royal Families". This is the best we have? This is the greatest and brightest leaders and job creators? Clintons and Bushes? C'mon.
5) Hillary Clinton is yet another politician owned by money. This is a big one for me, I don't like politicians in the pockets of the business people who get her there. Trump is a huge win in this category and it's hard to shake.
6) I think people have a right to be scared shitless of Trump. He gets pissed off easily, he's irrational, he's in many ways a buffoon, and it'd be cool for the US to be a country you don't want to piss off. Our defense spending is already astronomical. If we're going to have this unbelievably powerful and expensive military forces, we need to use it strategically.
7) I hate Obamacare and Hillary is acting like it's something to be proud of. Ask most people in the medical field (my co-workers included), and they can tell you just how asinine this system is and how it's ruining the healthcare system.
So do I hate Trump? Yeah kinda. Is he a racist? Probably. Sexist? check. Zero experience? Damn straight. More likely to start WW3 than Hillary? Youbetcha. But I hate him less than Clinton and I want to see this country get back to free markets, looser regulations, and ass-kickin'
Need help?
Creati0n says: still my favorite. <3
I sacrificed my firstborn for this great human being to join (M) ~R
Just Use Thunder!
Creati0n says: still my favorite. <3
I sacrificed my firstborn for this great human being to join (M) ~R
Just Use Thunder!
Responses: Bod, GoTrump
Bernie Sanders officially endorsed Hillary Clinton very recently, and instead of Hillary's numbers going up significantly, Stein instead has received a tremendous boost in grassroots campaign donations. She claims on her facebook page that donations have increased 10x since Sanders' endorsement. It'll be interesting to see whether more disenfranchised 'Bernedout' folks will flock to her campaign in the near future.
Cornell West also recently endorsed Jill Stein, so who knows if other very progressive voices in the nation will follow suit and lead to a bump in her numbers or what.
Johnson and Stein are both suing to get into the debates as well. Both have active petitions.
Oh, right. The Dem platform has also been drafted. It calls for a 15 dollar minimum wage, the tpp, "debt free" college (tuition free public college for households making 85,000 or less, pretty sure it has tons of loopholes but it's looking like an amazing starting point - whether or not it gets fought for is another thing), a call for an end to racism (not sure if they outlined any solutions to the REAL problems regarding, but w/e), harsher gun control regulations, and other stuff I'm forgetting.
The current draft of the Republican platform calls for a Christian theocracy. Laws that reflect the bible, encouraging that the bible be taught in schools, and other stuff that goes against what the constitution stands for. They also call for less gun regulation, a ban on gay adoption, an amendment reversing the gay marriage decision, and other stuff I'm glad to forget.
Last edited by pouffy; Jul 15, 2016 at 06:13 AM.
God no, absolutely not. I think she's a lesser evil than Trump is (mostly because he's economically illiterate when it comes to a national economy (managing a business is extremely different from managing the economic environment of a nation) and the fact that he wants to kill civilians in the middle east), but I'd never even consider voting for her.
I personally really like Jill Stein (I included information in a previous post on both 3rd party candidates).
I personally really like Jill Stein (I included information in a previous post on both 3rd party candidates).
Last edited by pouffy; Jul 15, 2016 at 06:18 AM.
Reason: is it just me or is it hot in here
