Which mode of thinking is the most conducive to living a happy life?

Why? No shitposts.
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Been thinking about this a fair bit recently. I'm tending to think some hybrid of pessimism and realism is best.

Optimism just seems cruel. The world is not a happy-go-lucky perfect utopia, as advertising and your friends' 'social masks' on Facebook would lead you to believe. If you're always viewing things as an optimist, expecting things to turn out well, you get crushed when your expectations are subverted and things don't go your way.

If we take pessimism, then we think that things won't go our way. Our expectations are low. When these expectations get subverted, we are elated.

If we take realism, then we rationally calibrate our expectations based on the situation at hand. Because our expectations are in line with reality, they don't often get subverted. If they do get subverted, then rather than elation or disappointed, what do we get... Surprised? Take realism if you like surprises I guess.

Happiness has been conceptionalised before as reality minus expectations. If this is the case, then that equation can be solved pretty quickly. We can say reality = 1, realism = 1, optimism (must be higher than reality) = 1.5 and pessimism = 0.5.

Realism gives us nothing. You get 0.
Optimism gives us a negative value. You get -0.5
Only pessimism gives us a positive number. 0.5

It's probably (definitely) not as simple that, but we can use this common conceptualisation of a 'happiness formula' to explain how low/negative expectations can actually result in something positive.

I'm not saying be a negative nelly/party pooper all the time. Seneca and the rest of the stoics of the time would start their days with a chant/meditation on how horrible the day ahead would be (so when it ain't bad, they're all g - and if it is bad, well they expected that). I ain't saying that.

If you're negative all the time, always looking for the worst in things, I bet you could delude yourself into depression. I wouldn't want to hang around thinking the world is so horrible and awful all the time, and I bet no-one else would wanna hang around with me either. It definitely doesn't seem healthy. So I ain't saying that.

I just reckon that, when facing 'big' situations, I think it might be best to approach it pessimistically, so as to avoid 'big' disappointment (and engender fantastic elation if the negative expectation does get subverted). For most other situations, probably be best to take a realist approach. I expect there'll be places where sprinkling in some optimism would be appropriate (supporting people/giving them confidence).

As I said at the start, these are just my current thoughts about it. They've very malleable right now - Not committed to anything yet. What do you think?

Not sure what you mean by time, but optimism/realism/pessimism all already have to do with expectations, don't they? Being optimistic about something means you have high hopes (expecations) about the future. Pessimism is the reverse. Realism is about having your expectations in line with reality. Right?

Why?

Not sure I understand what you're saying here. Can you rephrase?

I think you can't always limit yourself to one way all the time.
Its a mix between every given attribute in its natural form.
everybody has affinity for different things, even if the personal focus is elsewhere
if you don't have the affinity for different stuff, your ability may be restricted

Mhm, so you subscribe to realistic optimism (or optimistic realism).

So you're saying that realism is just reality (and not to do having 'realistic expectations') then to be optimistic means to accept what's going on in the world and to be pessimistic means to refuse to accept it?
What does it mean to be a realist then? What is a realist to realism? It can't be an acceptance of realism, cus that's optimism according to your view.


I agree with that.

What's your affinity (optimist, pessimist, realist) - What's your mix? Why?

I didn't ask what realism was though. I asked you what it meant (for you) to be a realist and what's the relationship a realist has to realism?

You said an optimist accepts realism and a pessimist rejects it. What does a realist do with it?

I think you run into some problems when you divorce expectations from your definitions. It's not just about accepting or rejecting reality. It's to do with how you expect things to go. That said, you said earlier you think optimism blended with realism is the optimal route to happiness. Can you explain why that is?

Among the pessimistic category I've met people who take on adversity with confidence and those who wither in its face. The first are mostly successful teachers, leaders, workers and artists, the latter often lead a simple life, sometimes with dissatisfaction. I can imagine there are other variables that will stop me from claiming one way of living as better than the others. Although I personally can't stand being around optimistic people for too long. I'm not sure what my team is but most of my friends would probably classify me as realist.

Even though optimistic people are prone to being hit by reality, they seem to always bounce back and easily find joy in things others wouldn't. I don't know what the connection is but I'm confident there is one.

I think most people would defend their "ideology" when confronted with this question. I can certainly think of situations in which being more optimistic would benefit me, but I wouldn't want to become one because my modus operandi has benefitted me just as often. As for "big situations", a pessimist might fare better and therefore be happier when it counts, but an optimist can argue that they're generally happier in their day-to-day life. Even if the pessimist strikes the life changing job opportunity, they'll spend their working days concerned and cautious. I know 80+ year old people who are frugal, skeptical and pessimistic. At this point I can't help but believe it's intrinsic to their nature.
I do agree that one should try to be versatile in their way of thinking depending in the situation. Learning to make those decisions is a problem in itself.

You are forgetting one very important thing, you manifest what you think. If you always think this day is shit, this job is shit, my life is shit, everything is shit, it's going to be shit forever, and you'll be sad. If you think today is a good day, I am alive, I'm healthy, I might have some setbacks, but thank God I was born American with opportunities for greatness, my life is pretty good, I can do anything, everything will be fine, if it's not fine it's not the end, then you will enjoy living and will get a lot more out of life.

Happiness doesn't have to be money drugs and fucking, it could just be enjoying having a family and friends and long term success.




My grandparents survived ww2 in the ussr faced starvation every day and were part of the only 4 survivors after the war out of their combined 18 person families. They had 7 brothers and sisters each. They were happy people and enjoyed their lives to their 90's in my grandfather's case and late 70's due to health complications in my grandmother's case.




The secret to their happiness was not giving a fuck, their mindset was eh this ain't shit compared to ww2, life is a cake walk now. So they did what others couldn't and lived happily. Their mindset was 100 percent fuck it Yolo it goes the way it goes, ima try my best. Sure there were ups and downs but overall they were happy, nobody can be happy forever without ever cracking a frown

Agree with most of what you said, but just here I'd like to point out that I did make the distinction that it's probably not best to live your day-to-day live with a pessimistic outlook. As I said, I reckon having properly calibrated expectations (realism) is probably best for day-to-day living.

I'm not sure if an optimist would be happier than a realist, day-to-day. It's an interesting discussion. I would think that the optimists would be constantly disappointed (since their expectations are constantly having a collision with reality).



Low expectations would seem to result in low standards, I agree. Conversely, high expectations = high standards. There's a quote that I've always liked "Shoot for the stars, so even if you fail, you still land on top of the earth". As I said above, I think in day-to-day living, it's probably best to have your expectations in line with reality.

I'd contend also though, that holding high expectations has it's own set of problems. There's a pressure associated with that - A tension to do with your expectations. And while it's good to aim to be great, not everyone can be Bill Gates. 98% of new businesses fail. When you find yourself at a disconnect between where you think you 'ought' to be (based on high expectations) and where you currently are, it's easy to despair. Just how sustainable is eternal optimism, for most people? Pressure (through high expectations) can make diamonds sure, but pressure can also break shit.


You might be right here, but I think there is some bad (unhappiness) that comes from marching ahead at this increased rate. Depending on the person, this rate might be sustainable, but I'm sure that for some it won't be.


Yeah, with day-to-day living, pessimism ain't healthy. As I said in my OP, it can probably delude you into depression. As I've said to 2WC though, I'm not sure if day-to-day optimism is entirely great either.

"I was born American with opportunities for greatness".... So what does that mean if (when you look around realistically) your life isn't great? You've squandered your opportunities? That's not great. This sort of leads into meritocratic thinking, which I'd argue, ain't too helpful. If your life is great and you're happy and earning a lot of money (and have great friends and family) it's because you merited that (you deserved that). You put in the time and effort and because of that, you are duly rewarded. So what if your life is shit? Meritocratic thinking would have you believe it's because you're shit. You merit having a shit life. That's a cruel way of looking at your own life (and others). Jerry, who lives in a trailer, has a shit life because he didn't put the time or effort in. It can't be that Jerry might have a shit life for a variety of other factors (factors not related to personal effort).

If you have the world saying 'Look at all the opportunities you have, you can be anything' and then you look around and realistically evaluate your own life, that can easily lead to self-loathing. I suppose you could say 'Well just don't realistically evaluate your own life then', but I don't know how long I could realistically keep up that sort of wilful self-delusion - Maybe it would be easier for others who are used to that sort of thing.

Nah Jerry should recognize that he's unlucky, and strive to better his luck in whatever way he can, he should try to be thankful for what he has, he's got a trailer and he isn't homeless. plenty of folk who live in trailer parks are poor and happy.

It's not the fact that you had opportunities and wasted them, it's the fact that you could be so much worse off, and that there is always hope to improve your lot in life that makes you a happy person.




What is happiness? It's fulfillment in life. If you never strive to achieve life goals and fulfillment, whatever those may be, you can never be happy. You can always adjust your goals too so you have something to strive for. If you live life without purpose, you will be unhappy. Even the severely mentally handicapped who are happy have a purpose, slather shit on wall, check happiness increases, lick window,check happiness increases, pick nose, check happiness increases.


I concede that if you constantly think on your failures you'll be sad, so don't think about them, think what did you learn and how do I move forward? What can I do to prevent failure in the future?




I'd also argue that the alternative to you reap what you sow is far more grim, the world is a lotto and its chosen to fuck you.