Player retention is a fairly weird subject, in the sense that there is no clear cut way to define what makes the numbers go up. For example, there's constant initiative through various channels, and while ES is the forefront of staff to bring in activity through events, there's many other ideas that Sir has developed throughout the years that have brought in new players and more reason for people to both stick around and come back.
From the most most recent one, Blind Fight, we've already seen so many new faces try it out and old players returning to give it a shot. We can only hope they stick around, personally I think this mode is the coolest thing Toribash has seen since decap_AI. There's been other initiatives, like Battlepass being a reason for people to grind out levels and opt in and support the game by buying it, or simply getting the rewards that come with free tiers. New items, new item effects, there's many things that can and will bring people back in, and I think Sir has done an incredible job in bringing these new ideas to the game.
From the ES side, we've been experimenting with old ideas and trying to find the sweet spot, Weekend Bash is an important event and we aim to only build on top of it, bring new ideas (like art, replaymaking) alongside more competitive in nature events.
I won't hold it against you, the competitive nature of Toribash is there, but hosting tournaments which only matter for the best players simply doesn't matter to new players. I agree that it's important to care for the veteran players, those that return to the game for these very events, but what matters is to bring in people on a day to day basis. In-game hosting is the primary way to do that, and I agree with Sir that it isn't the most effective way, since Client Events get hundreds of participants on a regular basis, but the foundation of ES in itself is being in-game.
Tournaments are generally tedious, this is a sentiment that pretty much every ES responsible for one has said. We still want to create them though, and we intend to bring at least one tournament a year to bring people together to celebrate the competitive world of Toribash, there is no change here and we will not change that. However, they do not help with user retention, even if some people come back, they will leave as soon as it's over, and come back for the next one. Nothing wrong with that either, but we're working towards creating more reason for people to stay, than to only come back periodically.
And as Sir said, there are other events happening, though I agree that there's always more to do. There's a reason why we're doing a recruitment drive, we're looking for people with fresh ideas and the energy to make them happen. Not all trials become full ES, not all full ES will bring about big scale events, and that's fine. People join ES to contribute to the community, and what matters is that they care enough to voluntarily spend their time on gathering people from the community to do something both they and others can enjoy.
From the most most recent one, Blind Fight, we've already seen so many new faces try it out and old players returning to give it a shot. We can only hope they stick around, personally I think this mode is the coolest thing Toribash has seen since decap_AI. There's been other initiatives, like Battlepass being a reason for people to grind out levels and opt in and support the game by buying it, or simply getting the rewards that come with free tiers. New items, new item effects, there's many things that can and will bring people back in, and I think Sir has done an incredible job in bringing these new ideas to the game.
From the ES side, we've been experimenting with old ideas and trying to find the sweet spot, Weekend Bash is an important event and we aim to only build on top of it, bring new ideas (like art, replaymaking) alongside more competitive in nature events.
Originally Posted by Thorin
lastest staff hosted tournament: https://forum.toribash.com/showthread.php?t=666269 (July 14th, 2024)
Kane has hosted TWO tournaments since clan league last year, and the event squad have hosted ZERO... what do these people even do except wear purple colored names on the forum and in-game?
hosting tournaments and interesting events that people care about helps foster community activity and maintain player retention, to clarify my point -- and before tries to gotcha me and points to things like this: https://forum.toribash.com/showthread.php?t=667271 and this: https://forum.toribash.com/showthread.php?t=668181, the truth is that these small tournaments do not matter at all to most players, therefore it doesn't count for much in my eyes (and theirs)
I won't hold it against you, the competitive nature of Toribash is there, but hosting tournaments which only matter for the best players simply doesn't matter to new players. I agree that it's important to care for the veteran players, those that return to the game for these very events, but what matters is to bring in people on a day to day basis. In-game hosting is the primary way to do that, and I agree with Sir that it isn't the most effective way, since Client Events get hundreds of participants on a regular basis, but the foundation of ES in itself is being in-game.
Originally Posted by sir
Yes, there hasn't been any tournament type events in a while, sure. I don't know how current Event Squad members feel about these types of events, but I personally don't think that they're helping with retention in a meaningful way. It's great to see Kane and fl0w still hosting Endurance Onslaught events, but at the end of the day all you get is a ko bracket for a very limited number of pro players which then spans over a period of 4 to 6 weeks. Will these pro players leave the game if not for this tournament alone? Doubt it.
Correct me if I'm wrong here but to me there's fundamentally no real difference other than the prize pool between these huge tournaments and regular MP events hosted by Event Squad. The only thing that makes them feel special is that they happen fairly rarely, but that's also what justifies them having these prize pools that they wouldn't have otherwise.
Tournaments are generally tedious, this is a sentiment that pretty much every ES responsible for one has said. We still want to create them though, and we intend to bring at least one tournament a year to bring people together to celebrate the competitive world of Toribash, there is no change here and we will not change that. However, they do not help with user retention, even if some people come back, they will leave as soon as it's over, and come back for the next one. Nothing wrong with that either, but we're working towards creating more reason for people to stay, than to only come back periodically.
Originally Posted by sir
Latest staff hosted event (excluding regular multiplayer tourneys / hotseats / betting rooms) was Sledge Ride released in early February which had 396 participants who submitted 540 entries.
Blind Fight which is part of 5.74 update is would not be thing if it wasn't pitched as an event idea by Event Squad (and BOOST specifically).
Also... there's literally an art event going on right now?
And as Sir said, there are other events happening, though I agree that there's always more to do. There's a reason why we're doing a recruitment drive, we're looking for people with fresh ideas and the energy to make them happen. Not all trials become full ES, not all full ES will bring about big scale events, and that's fine. People join ES to contribute to the community, and what matters is that they care enough to voluntarily spend their time on gathering people from the community to do something both they and others can enjoy.
Originally Posted by mala
thats not what toribash is about its not a moneymaking game
none of the tiktoks encompassed the entire scope of what the game is about either
if you look at the page its all replaymaking stuff with some mma mixed in which is because the guy who runs the page, matarika, has a heavy bias for just those two things
I'm of the opinion that Toribash marketing really should cover all aspects of the game. Simply posting replays is a problematic way to set people's expectations, for reasons that can be pulled from elsewhere in this thread. People need to get creative with what they show, mixing in gameplay, what it's like to engage with the community, different playstyles, and generally interesting things that aren't just replays.
Originally Posted by sir
Discord is a good enough hub for most casual community talk and has been a great replacement to IRC, and we do have a quick access button for our server in game that's visible most of the time you're browsing menus.
The quote I chose isn't all that relevant, but I want to say that I think integration with the community is a really key part of retention. Like obviously it is, but especially in a game where there are so many commands that are only spread through word of mouth. Just today I spoke to a third dan who thought you can only download mods through joining rooms, and I had to tell them the command for it. I have no idea how else you would find the command to do this simple, core thing other than by doing /help and running through every single command. The hilarious part is that /dl doesn't even work for everybody as far as I know. My point here is that onboarding people into the community is kind of the only way for them to learn some really important features, so stuff like the discord should reallllyyy be pushed because it's where so much of that important knowledge and feedback is contained.
Originally Posted by jsph
while Toribash's retention issues are complicated, this specific aspect of it is really simple - when you first start, it is difficult to earnestly frame what you engage with after the tutorial as a 'game'. the closest analogy off the top of my head is like handing a child a piece of blank paper and pen and asking them to try and have fun. it's of course possible, but asking the player immediately to make their own fun, figure out a way for them to gamify it themselves, especially with a task much more demanding than doodling - it's really no surprise people bounce off it so quickly. there are many, many issues with how the game is initially presented to new players, and many ways to rectify that, and i think the best way to get on track is more people actually looking at what that's like
I've bookmarked this page so I can link to this message whenever this subject comes up
Originally Posted by Zorow
out of the thousands of players that visit this game semi regularly, is there not a single one that has a fairly large following, that could be drawing in attention.
Oh have you ever seen the minecraft youtuber Skip The Tutorial? He has a second channel where he posted a Toribash video last month. It actually resulted in a viewership spike on my own Toribash youtube channel, mostly from people simply searching "toribash". A few of my shorts went from <1000 views to 2k views because of this. Toribash 100% has a place in 2025 content, but content creators don't think to revisit this game usually. It's not a new trending thing so like... why would they? Honestly I think Toribash's best chance of a proper mainstream youtube video hit is a video essay on some interesting history about the game and its community. I see comments all the time that are like "woahh this game isn't a fever dream? I only had trace memories from it from middle school but could never find the name." I think that's the perfect audience for a video explaining where Toribash has been and how it's evolved. Someone clicking balls and struggling to move, or clicking balls and succeeding to move in a way that the viewer cannot comprehend, seems like a somewhat less engaging idea to me.
Truthfully, I think the power lies in the community itself. You all self-evidently have online presence, and many of you have social media presence. As Sir said, this is a very community-driven game. I think it would be a great first step for people to post about Toribash regularly in whatever way they want, just like how people post about whatever Roblox game they play or whatever escapades they go on in Minecraft. But right now I think the stigma is to not talk about Toribash outside of Toribash Discord circles because... it's too nerdy or something? Toribash discussion feels very much contained to Discord for me, and I think people should work to dissolve those barriers. Markiplier is not going to wake up one day and decide to save us by making a sequel video on Toribash. It would be best if Nabi had the resources for a proper ad campaign, but they barely have enough to make a sequel game that is playable. Marketing duty falls on this circle of dedicated players, I think. And I think these players have enough dedication to sustain interest in Toribash. The community just has to put the same effort that they put into whining about staff on the forums into making a video about... idk maybe whining about staff! Any content really! People just don't do it and that gap should really be filled. Results will come from our own action, our own expression of our genuine interest.
Originally Posted by jsph
one thing i like to do from time to time is going to livestreams/VODs and watching people play Toribash for the first time. almost always, the people who seem to be enjoying it the most had downloaded the game at the same time as a friend, hopped into aikido or a simple, fun mod, and simply played against each other.
This
I've watched this happen a few times as well and the real recipe for retention of these streamers is when them and their friend are both equally into the game and get competitive with each other.
Game was way easier to get into when beginner servers were full and you naturally progressed to intermediate and semipro and by the time you hit black belt you had a decent enough grasp on the game to survive against the average player. Playing against similar skilled people made the game feel competitive instead of one sided destruction. I remember viewing custom belts and master belts as gods of the game who were unbeatable
Now the noobs join public boxshu as a white belt and get stomped after waiting 15 min to play and then never play again.
I think dyingderps point about the community is spot on. It is literally in our hands, WE can take actionable steps to promote the game. Would be super cool to see someone make a new top 5 insane fights series or a good player uploading multiplayer gameplay commentary breaking down what they are doing. Doesn't even have to be as high effort as that, just post a cool replay you have on tiktok! But obviously not everyone has the time for that stuff. I myself have a lot of video ideas that I just procrastinate on. But even if just 20 of us decided to upload 1 video this week on youtube that is 20 more videos that weren't there before.
Something wayy easier and low effort is just to simply go out of your way to be nice to noobs. Which I know a lot of us do.
Also staff are doing great no one should be dunking on the people that literally keep this game afloat.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Be like Szaszuniya and become god of the entire world and then create Toribash in my own image, this will retain 5 million players every 5 minutes and then I wake up and realize I forgot what I was going to type originally...
