Toribash
Original Post
Beauty
Today was a nice sunny day here and i was looking at the cloud while driving back from the beach (as opposed to the road). It made me think. Why do we find certain things beautiful and inspiring, and others ugly and undesirable?

Instinctual attraction to 'hot' mates is easily rationalized (I'll speak from male perspective now). We find fit women desirable because they are generally healthier, and thus more able to carry on your offspring. Men who are attracted to sexy women are more represented in global population because that particular trait is an evolutionary advantage. But what about things like clouds, and flowers, and sunsets?

Well, after thinking a while it seems it can be explained by exact same means.
We live on Earth, where there are plenty of clouds in the sky, and sunsets, and winds that shake the grass fields. These things generally represent natural environments a human most thrives in (favorable climate, with enough vegetation and precipitation (clouds). So just like with men who like hot women, those who like healthy climate are more represented.
Of course, nowadays we are generally isolated from nature (for all those who live in big gray industrial cities) but we still retain our natural bias to certain phenomenons.

Even from culture to culture here on Earth, standards of beauty vary.
Imagine if Mars was populated by some sentient life. Their perception of beauty would be completely different and alien to us, because Mars environment would favor totally different perceptions of beauty.
Originally Posted by chow11 View Post
i somtimes think that industrial architecture is beautiful. maybe i am from mars:O

That's perfectly natural as well, since

a) we made it
b) many generations of us have lived in urban environments.

But i just picked the nature one, because it applies to more people i think.
One other thing that I think attracts people to thing is the affect color, sound, and smell has on our brains. On a lovely day, when you are outside and you smell the smell of of things being alive, and hear birds and such, the things you see are more likely to be seen as beautiful.

And also, like Chow said, a lot of times things that aren't really "supposed" to be beautiful are, like death.
Organisation of Awesome: Member.
It's also how most people are rasied for example:

...........Nice..............Not nice...

-snip-

Why the fuck are you linking turds? ~Dalir
[19:32] <@darilu-kun> tori = furry, bash = pride
Originally Posted by Peter1212 View Post
Shit YEAH.

Holy shit, money accounts for so much these days.
If you're poor, girls don't think you're cool or "hot" or whatever the fuck.

Forgot about money's influence on your looks.

hey hey hey, come on now, give women some credit here. Yes there are MANY women out there who are like that, but there are also MORE THAN PLENTY women out there who dont care about money.

In fact most women I know are more concerned about the person. Money plays a role (but it does for men also) but on the whole they will always be more interested in the person. This is because women are people also :P and therefor a bit more sophisticated than peacocks.
Organisation of Awesome: Member.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
That being said, the biases of "beholder's eye" are shaped by the environment in which said eye and it's ancestors reside in.

EVERYTHING can be seen as beautiful.
Some maniacs (due to some unfortunate mutation/upbringing) find scattered human intestines beautiful, but do you think this particular trait is favored by evolution? No. These kinds of people are constantly eradicated by our society (for a good reason) and so this particular view of beauty is not widely represented. Most people find guts of a dead human disgusting, and it's a more 'healthy' view that is more compatible with our civilization and it's well-being.

Let me illustrate another example.
Most of you who read this are probably afraid of, or disgusted by, spiders. Even when you know the spider in question is clearly not poisonous, you still have innate fear of his small 8-legged body. It's mere presence unnerves you. Why don't you find it beautiful? Why don't you want to take it in your hand, and pet it? Answer lies in biology. For ancient humans, insects nearly ALWAYS meant trouble. Ants, mosquitoes, flies, bees, wasps, centipedes, and most of all - spiders. Spiders don't try to make their presence obvious, and a good many of them are/were poisonous. For millenia, they made their base in people's homes and often caused trouble. A genome which resulted in one NOT being afraid of spider is unfavorable, because those kinds of people were more likely to get bitten and die, thus people who love spiders are a clear minority even today.

The ways in which subtle things effect our group perception are not always as easy to see, of course.
Last edited by Odlov; Sep 6, 2009 at 06:57 AM.
Originally Posted by Deprived View Post
(btw I love spiders, even though their presecence is a bit uncanny they take out all of those nasty insects coming into mah house)

That can't be it - I don't believe that because something is dangerous or healthy for a human does it suddendly mean that something is disgusting or, respectively, beautiful. For example, I'm pretty sure most of society would love to see dangerous mammals - such as bears, lions, wolves, tigers, etc. even though in the past encounters with such beasts could mean nothing but trouble. Simmilairly, I'm pretty sure that many of us would be disgusted by pigs (even though they are a source of food! = healthy) and their regulaur habbits. Or why is a butcher's table a place of disgust even though it's a place which brings us food?

Not saying that effect on health is the only thing which effects our perception, but yit's on of the most important ones.
Spiders are also much more alien to us than lions, who are mammals and do things much like we humans do (eat with mouth, have 2 eyes, 4 limbs, similar reproductive system, etc). Pigs habits disgust us because rolling around in dirt does. It's neither pleasureful nor very healthy for us.

Again, not saying all beauty standards depend on 1 single factor, but you got to admit it's too many coincidences.
Originally Posted by BenDover View Post
i think its all about conventions and assosciations.
we associate sunsets and the like with emotions and because of the way we were brought up, understanding that sunsets are beautiful.

also, artistically, sunsets are aesthetically pleasing, good colour combinations and contrasts and all that. the sun sets over the sea, casting a oranglike light over the water. blue sky, and dark water, the colours evoke emotive reactions, like the orange light gives a warm feeling, while the blue sky is cool and calming. two spects of life that put most people in good moods.

flowers are pretty again because of colour combinations, pinks, blues, red, mixxing with the smooth lines and green stems giving a thoroughly natural vibe.

art is beatiful because its made in what we believe to be good and attractive. which is why some people find certain art styles better than others.

The point that ragdoll made when he quoted "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" shows you what I find to be good. which might not be what others feel.


But why are certain color combinations "aesthetically pleasing" to us?
I'm sure most people would agree that green goes better with yellow than with red.
Originally Posted by BenDover View Post
contrast, intensity, concentration, light/brightness

I think it's something more than that.

Contrast/intensity....Well if you take your regular green and put it next to red and then take that same green and put it next to yellow of the same value as red it'll still look better.