Originally Posted by tatsujay
ig⋅no⋅rance [ig-ner-uhns] Show IPA
–noun
the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.
Hxcbbqimo and a lot of others in here... WHY do you keep speaking like you "Know" what "God" does and doesn't?
These are just a few:
"God wouldn't"
"He would"
"He would"
"he creates"
"God knows"
You say he made the devil to keep up this "illusion" and things of the sort. You would have NO idea... Acting like you know what "God" is thinking/doing, doesn't proving anything... and isn't even a valid form to argue a point...
For all you know "God" could really be created by the devil to upkeep an illusion created by "The Devil"
This question has been acted billions of times... and I KNOW its off topic but...NO ONE WILL ANSWER...
"Why does there HAVE to have been a "God" to have made all that we know?"
also...
If "God" made us in HIS image... Why are we not all knowing and omnipotent beings bound by time and space itself...And why isn't he an emotional sack of flesh and bone?...
What would a being of such even look like, and how exactly would anyone know that this "God" even made us in their own image at all?
(Those last few are a bit of rant-like/pointless, but they are honest questions...)
You are absolutely right. I don't know. You don't know. Nobody knows. And nobody here pretends they know the answer to whether or not god exists. This is because it's unable to prove or disprove the existence of god. What I enjoy doing is create possible theories, theories which have to meet the conditions of say Odlov's demands of what needs to be true about god for him to entertain the idea of believing in him. That's what this thread is about. If you interpreted my previous posts as: I know things about god that nobody else does, you didn't catch what I was trying to articulate.
This is a hypothetical debate which serves the purpose of discussing theories about God.
Need help?
Creati0n says: still my favorite. <3
I sacrificed my firstborn for this great human being to join (M) ~R
Just Use Thunder!
Creati0n says: still my favorite. <3
I sacrificed my firstborn for this great human being to join (M) ~R
Just Use Thunder!
Originally Posted by tatsujay
The only reason i even posted the First huge chunk of that was because you said "bliss is in ignorance" I was just making sure you didn't exclude yourself, because of the chronological order that you placed that comment, it had seemed that you maybe had?
But that still leaves the Lower third of my original post that remains unanswered or commented upon:...Perhaps you too could entertain the thought of the opposition?
For all you know "God" could really be created by the devil to upkeep an illusion created by "The Devil"
This question has been asked billions of times... and I KNOW its off topic but...NO ONE WILL ANSWER...
"Why does there HAVE to have been a "God" to have made all that we know?"
also...
I really don't understand how you can say that "God" does in fact exist 100% when all the means to tell whether or not "God" exists are completely outside of the realm of human comprehension...
What would a being of such even look like, and how exactly would anyone know that this "God" even made us in their own image at all?
also...
If "God" made us in HIS image... Why are we not all knowing and omnipotent beings bound by time and space itself...And why isn't he an emotional sack of flesh and bone?...
And this was actually ment to be a debate discussing the logical problems of "God":Pertaining to Christianity
(Those last few are a bit of rant-like/pointless, but they are honest questions...)
...Let's see if we can clear up your "never answered" questions.
Why does there have to be a god to make up all that we know: There doesn't. We aren't saying its a definite fact that God exists. In fact, 70% or more of the people posting in this thread believe he doesn't exist.
How one can say that 100% they believe god exists when all means of comprehension of such are outside our realm: I think the main answer here is faith. People become hung up on their convictions which answer the many questions science has been unable to answer for hundreds upon thousands of years. Note* I am not saying these people are rational, in fact, most people don't believe 100% that God exists, but they have a stronger inclination that God exists than God not existing.
What would such a being look like: Who says it's one specific figure at one specific instance of time? God, most likely, is a spirit, outside our realm of time. That's if he exists.
God made us in his image: You are reading the bible LITERALLY when it should be understood and translated FIGURATIVELY. God didn't say "my face looks like this, so yours will too". Thats ludicrous. The figurative interpretation is that God created us to be holy creatures who believe in his higher power. We don't have to be "all knowing" and "all powerful" to be like him. Compare us to the other creatures god created, We are a hell of a lot more knowledgeable and powerful. You think a rhino is strong? Try holding an AK-47.
Concerning the debate topic: Odlov created this thread with the intentions of posting some of the many valid philosophical and logical dilemmas which prevent him to believe in God. I am imagining he is looking for people to either reflect on his points and comment constructively towards his argument, or make counter arguments and points to show why Odlov should believe in some form of god.
Need help?
Creati0n says: still my favorite. <3
I sacrificed my firstborn for this great human being to join (M) ~R
Just Use Thunder!
Creati0n says: still my favorite. <3
I sacrificed my firstborn for this great human being to join (M) ~R
Just Use Thunder!
Originally Posted by Ragdollmaster
Science fags tend to be more pious, stubborn, arrogant, and close-minded than religious fags.
You're either trolling in my thread or have no clue what you are talking about.
If that was in fact the case, theories of Einstein and Stephen Hawking would be silenced by the majority, and we would still adhere to heliocentric model of the universe and insist that Newtonian physics apply everywhere.
On the other hand.....the Catholic church has just recently accepted the possibility that evolution may be true after all.....and Catholics are one of the least 'conservative' denominations out there.
Originally Posted by m0o
Citation needed. Although, in some respect I agree. Scientists aren't particularly closed minded (Einstein did not reject the idea of a creator and I think Newton believed in god, for example) and a lot of what scientists do is about being open-minded. It's generally the stupid ones who are closed-minded.
Newton was a devout believer, true.
Einstein though...not so much. He may have been agnostic in regards to vague 'creator', but he explicitly stated he did not believe in any form of "personal god".
A proper scientist must maintain agnostic stance, even if they don't find the concept believable at all. Again, because it's outside of empirical inquiry.
I too maintain agnostic stance in regards to god, and dragons, and whether we exist in a matrix simulation, but this thread is regarding justification of belief. I presented some valid arguments to test other people, and myself in the process. Also to create a discussion. See how popular this thread is?
Originally Posted by Ragdollmaster
Speaking from personal experience I disagree. Maybe I just know a lot of cool Christians and a lot of apathetic atheists (double alliteration \o/) but I've always noticed that, in SOME cases, religion gives people a sense of satisfaction/fulfillment.
Perhaps.
Then again, a high person is happier than sober person.
The traditional religious "truth" seems like a surrogate complacency to me, so i prefer to stand by for answer i deem real, which will hopefully emerge from our sciences.
And it's not like one has a choice in the matter anyway - one doesn't just suddenly stop and say "hey, I'm going to be an atheist/republican/sushi lover". Outlooks just develop in you as you experience the world, and you can't censor them.
Originally Posted by Clbck
This is thread is misnamed. You aren't attacking the idea of a God as a Creator at all. You are attacking Christianity.
I made it clear right in the first paragraph what this thread was about. It was meant to present arguments against Abrahamic god, not some vague deistic deity. Is questioning things called "attacking" around here?
The establishment of existence. Science hasn't figured out why we exist at all.
Why shouldn't we?
I feel fucking dirty for posting in this thread. Seriously, I felt this way too at one point. Then I got out of 10th grade.
Baww, now i have to glue my shattered ego together
PS: anyhow, since few people besides Reanimator, Squiziph and hxc actually tried to refute my arguments, I'll close this for now. Otherwise some people's heads may start exploding from rage.
Last edited by Odlov; Feb 9, 2010 at 09:30 PM.
