Original Post
Is it Suicide?
After holding an argument with a group about suicide, I thought it would be a decent idea to open a thread about situations and whether or not they are indeed a form of suicide.
Case 1: You are on your bed, cuddled up with your pillow and blanket, when suddenly the phone rings. The man on the line states "At 3 PM tommorow I will go into your bed and kill you. So I wouldn't reccomend being in your bed at that time". You choose to not call the police and decide that you are simply going to stay in bed at 3 PM, allowing yourself to be shot and killed. Was that a form of suicide? Why or Why not?
Case 2: A man approaches you with a gun in his hand. He yells loudly "Do you want to die?". He goes on to explain "If you say yes, I will kill you. If you say no, I will leave you alone. If you say nothing, I will kill you." By saying yes, is this a form of suicide? By saying nothing, is that a form of suicide? Defend your answer.
Case 3: You decide to sit down and ponder in an open field. You sit on what feels like bumpy, hard, earth, and relax. It's 2:45. A woman yells from a distance: "WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!", you sit up and ask what she is talking about. To wit, she replies "You are sitting on a train track. The train should be in 15 minutes. You need to get up!" You look down, and you realize that this camoflauged ground was actually a train track; however, you decide to stay there. Sitting down. Knowing your fate in 15 minutes. Is this a form of suicide? Defend you answer.
Once you answer and defend each case, make an attempt to make a global definition or two for the act of "suicide".
Case 1: You are on your bed, cuddled up with your pillow and blanket, when suddenly the phone rings. The man on the line states "At 3 PM tommorow I will go into your bed and kill you. So I wouldn't reccomend being in your bed at that time". You choose to not call the police and decide that you are simply going to stay in bed at 3 PM, allowing yourself to be shot and killed. Was that a form of suicide? Why or Why not?
Case 2: A man approaches you with a gun in his hand. He yells loudly "Do you want to die?". He goes on to explain "If you say yes, I will kill you. If you say no, I will leave you alone. If you say nothing, I will kill you." By saying yes, is this a form of suicide? By saying nothing, is that a form of suicide? Defend your answer.
Case 3: You decide to sit down and ponder in an open field. You sit on what feels like bumpy, hard, earth, and relax. It's 2:45. A woman yells from a distance: "WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!", you sit up and ask what she is talking about. To wit, she replies "You are sitting on a train track. The train should be in 15 minutes. You need to get up!" You look down, and you realize that this camoflauged ground was actually a train track; however, you decide to stay there. Sitting down. Knowing your fate in 15 minutes. Is this a form of suicide? Defend you answer.
Once you answer and defend each case, make an attempt to make a global definition or two for the act of "suicide".
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Creati0n says: still my favorite. <3
I sacrificed my firstborn for this great human being to join (M) ~R
Just Use Thunder!
Creati0n says: still my favorite. <3
I sacrificed my firstborn for this great human being to join (M) ~R
Just Use Thunder!
Originally Posted by apple
People are trying too hard to have decent threads in Discussion.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Suicide
The deliberate taking of one's own life.
First and second cases are partly suicide, partly homicide. Third case is suicide.
Not really much argument about this, to be honest.
"Legal" dictionary insists that our government is 100% right in all of it's laws. I would expect that you would know better than that. Is our legal system good? Yes. Is it better than most? Yes. Is it always right, god no.
Not to mention: we aren't arguing over O.E.D vs. Webster. It's a conversation about what could be considered a suicide.
Need help?
Creati0n says: still my favorite. <3
I sacrificed my firstborn for this great human being to join (M) ~R
Just Use Thunder!
Creati0n says: still my favorite. <3
I sacrificed my firstborn for this great human being to join (M) ~R
Just Use Thunder!
Originally Posted by apple
Are you saying "The deliberate taking of one's own life." is not a proper definition? I was applying it to the 3 cases you presented and what I presented pretty much fits. "The deliberate taking of one's own life", which implies someone taking their own life, with intention of doing so. If it's also done by someone else, it can't be a full-on suicide, can it? Sure, the person has a part in it and all, but there's another entity who has influence in it, thus also making it partially a homicide. That's basically my train of thought on this.
Anyway, I back the definition the legal dictionary presents, hence my quoting of the article. I'll halt my posting on this thread, since I've given my 0.02$.
The bolded portion is what many would find argumentative. Maybe not considering it a "full-on" suicide, simply because of the example with the man and the gun: he is still the one to pull the trigger which would make him accountable as well. However, the train-track example is erasing the malice intentions of an individual. If a person rests on the rails of a train track and is killed, there wasn't any intentions for the driver to kill anyone. It was the person's own choice to put them-self into a situation which would cause death. Hence, an arguable form of suicide. Going back to the gun example: the person who is confronted by the gunman is placed in a dangerous situation; however, if acting appropriate, the person can live. It's because of a decision made by both parties that the victim is dead, yes; however, the person still dies because of an action which has intent of taking their own lives.
*Edit* Saw Oyster's Post:
The legal system is always right, because no matter what decision is made, so long as A decision was made the court has functioned properly.
Also, by the commonly held definition (willfully ending your own life, regardless of whether or not you committed the act itself), there really isn't much of a discussion to be had because the only possible logical avenue of thought has already been discussed.
The legal system does indeed function properly. That in no way makes the laws morally or even logically justified. If a law stated women couldn't eat ice cream on Tuesday was passed, and a court enforces this law and holds a standard procedure, the court has "functioned properly"; however, that doesn't mean the laws are just.
Going on to your comment about "regardless of whether or not you committed the act itself", that is a very argumentative statement that you are trying to force as a given fact. That's also one of the primary questions to debate: is it suicide if you aren't the one doing it. If you will take notice of what others have said, that question has been answered in more than one way which result in complete opposites. Obviously this means this isn't a given fact. It's something that has to be debated, illustrated through examples, etc.
Last edited by Bodhisattva; Mar 13, 2010 at 12:37 AM.
Need help?
Creati0n says: still my favorite. <3
I sacrificed my firstborn for this great human being to join (M) ~R
Just Use Thunder!
Creati0n says: still my favorite. <3
I sacrificed my firstborn for this great human being to join (M) ~R
Just Use Thunder!
Well I was assuming that by commonly held definition you were alluding to the definition as a "Given".
If that isn't the case, like you are saying it isn't now, than realize that simply because things are commonly accepted, doesn't make them right. America commonly accepted slavery, thinking it was justified and that Africans weren't of equals with Caucasians. One reason intellectuals or scholars debate is to prove points which an average or commonly believed misnomer is actually false.
I am also going to ask you to refrain from any negative connotation to any other user while debating. This isn't the first time I have seen you speak poorly of others, especially when you disagree with them.
If that isn't the case, like you are saying it isn't now, than realize that simply because things are commonly accepted, doesn't make them right. America commonly accepted slavery, thinking it was justified and that Africans weren't of equals with Caucasians. One reason intellectuals or scholars debate is to prove points which an average or commonly believed misnomer is actually false.
I am also going to ask you to refrain from any negative connotation to any other user while debating. This isn't the first time I have seen you speak poorly of others, especially when you disagree with them.
Need help?
Creati0n says: still my favorite. <3
I sacrificed my firstborn for this great human being to join (M) ~R
Just Use Thunder!
Creati0n says: still my favorite. <3
I sacrificed my firstborn for this great human being to join (M) ~R
Just Use Thunder!
Is smoking suicide? It can potentially kill you and you know it.
Is joining the army suicide? It can potentially kill you and you know it.
Is driving drunk suicide? Eating junk food?
It all comes down to your personal intention. If i join the Army with a death wish, hoping to get shot in the hottest conflict zone, then I am committing suicide. Outsiders who don't know my motives could never tell, but ultimately it was.
PS: and why does it matter?
Is joining the army suicide? It can potentially kill you and you know it.
Is driving drunk suicide? Eating junk food?
It all comes down to your personal intention. If i join the Army with a death wish, hoping to get shot in the hottest conflict zone, then I am committing suicide. Outsiders who don't know my motives could never tell, but ultimately it was.
PS: and why does it matter?
