Well since the TW board is kind of inactive I felt like starting some senseless Debate ;3

OLDFAEGZ vs NUFAEGZ :

Some of you guys still talk about Kamiko, Odlov, or other players I've never heard of, or played with. Some still say "Ahhhhhhh tings wur so much moar great n the ol' time dur" while us newfagz see the smuthness and skillz the brushu generation's getting.

The newcomers get the hang of comebacks and impro way faster than before I think. But some old timers keep thinking the gold time of wushu was back to wushu.tbm or wushufixed.tbm because (quote) "Coming back with broken joints required much more skillz than it does now". To this I say lol.
I had numerous comeback with broken joints even in brushu, if you guys can't break each others in brushu it only means you hit like sissies ! ;o

Oldfaegz ! You're wrong !
I'll stand corrected only when I'm being asswhooped by some half dead wushu legend... if that ever happens.

ARGUE !

(Reader's advice : do not take this post too seriously)

I would say that for me, it's just a matter of nostalgia from what I can tell. Because nobody knew how to wushu with maximum efficiency except those greats, there was little propagation of that knowledge and as a result, matches were much more onesided. There was no wushu tut in the old days. I think that people look back on guys like odlov with heavy bias, not realizing that if he faced someone like you, deprav, even in his prime it would be a very fair fight. If anything the general skill level in the mod has risen, and that means it is more difficult to streak constantly. I do not question that they were great players, only that they are better than the new generation who have the benefit of starting with more knowledge available than they had.

Having played both: I will tell you deprav, and I'm sorry don't talk offense- it's nowhere near close.

When I mention Wushu ToriLegends, I don't mention players that played wushu 4 years ago. I mention Wushu players that were BETTER than us.

Let me expand on that idea for a minute:

SlipAnc played Wushu in the golden years of it's existence as one of the most well known members in one of the most well known wushu clans out there: HUNG. SlipAnc was a great player for wushu.tbm/wushufixed.tbm. He was NOT a Torilegend for skill. He was good for that.

Odlov played Wushu in the golden years of it's existence and acted as something below leadership for the best Wushu clan, Alpha. He IS and WAS an icon because his skills extended far beyond the current competition. Did he do just fine in Wushu.tbm? Yeah totally. But it's hard to make the argument that it was all openers when he would noobclap 40% of games. His comebacks were faster, his decision making was smarter, his instincts were better, his prediction was top notch. He WAS better than anyone here.

Sahee is the grey area. I think of him out of nostalgia as a ToriGod of wushu, but he was partially the making of the old wushu. He's borderline though because he typically preferred wushu with 650 ED.



But I digress:

as an ENTIRE community: new school wushu players are better. More of you can comeback effectively, more of you can improv effectively, more of you have adapted more successfully.

But. In terms of the best. KamiKo, Odlov, and possibly Sahee: are better than myself, the current alpha roster, and begotten. And I don't see it being too close. Were trying our best to step up our game, but we don't streak 12 games like EVERY time we come up to bat against OTHER GOOD players. As much as I'd love to say were on the same level, were just not. At least not yet.

I have to say, hax, in wushu.tbm it is entirely possible to get dismemberments with just a fast aggressive comeback and a well placed hard joint, like an elbow. For that reason, I think that comparing wushu.tbm/wushufixed and brushu is difficult, because in brushu to frac or dm you have to create much more velocity on momentum once the aggressive comeback is made. I think that because of that, brushu/wushu3 don't force you to play nearly as defensively, as absorbing a hit is much more feasible. That is probably what made guys like odlov and kamiko into such GREAT players...they had to learn to defend or dodge, or what we might consider a weak hit in brushu could mean death. Also, having had this revelation, I will be training more in wushu.tbm now ;p as to what this means for the debate here...I would say that the oldschoolers were better in different ways. in causing precisely placed damage and defending, yes superior. As far as speed and fluidity, and therefore raw power, I am not so sure, I might give the edge to the best of the newschoolers. Been thinking about this a lot during my vacation. This analysis, though, does put the oldschooler on top. Blocking so efficiently and attacking, even if the attack is weaker than one's opponent, still means the oldschoolers would win in points.

I suppose it's alright since you called this debate "senseless", because it pretty much is. No matter what, everything is just based on opinion with "who's the best" threads. Of course, feel free to state your opinions as the thread asks, but like deprav said, just don't take it too seriously. My point is just, there is absolutely no point in trying to prove one another wrong here.

No worries, master Snudge, I am just stimulating my mind with some healthy thought and debate. I'm sure we are all just enjoying some intellectual exercise

we will see about newfags in 0,5 - 1 year. i guess seeds from putting wushu tutorial on every single wushu room will have it effect.

Powas > Yes, that's our discussion that made me think about making this thread ;p

I'd like to see some of the famous oldfaegz replays ! where can I find some of those ?

I get the point of wushu.tbm requiring more skillz (well, not in my head ;p) because you could break anytime, defending or attacking, so you had to be careful.
But for me this possibility to break anytime is just a factor that brings some more luck into the game.

As you said yourself, now with brushu we could enhance our speed and power since we didn't have the random fracs to worry about (even If that still happens sometimes), but that means defensively you have to be able to block/dodge/absorb some much more precise/powerful/fast hits.
Oh and my idea of more dt and ft wouldn't be for an official mod, more like some training mod to attack ubber hard without any fear of breaking. And if you reach some insane power/speed you're rewarded with a little frac.

And yes you're right about the martial art part, we HAVE to play with everyone as they're our equals, that's how we and our opponents improve :] But I think this org is kind of a "tool" to promote wushu among people who don't know it that much, to make it more visible in the era of aikido and aikidobd mods...
And well, educating them about playing with people as their equals is the job of older wushuers, like you ;p

actually WhiteSensei/Darksamurai/Madreckless and some other alts of his, is not that great now. Maybe he was good some time ago, but I remember making him rage more than once in the past half-year.

And thanks I'll try to find some old replays around there ^^

Deprav, for your troubles (and only because I love you so much):

http://forum.toribash.com/showthread.php?t=50379