I personally didn't like MW3, I didn't really enjoy the feel. After the first MW, I've preferred Treyarch's take on the CoD franchise. Blops/2 just felt better to me in comparison to MW2/3. I never really played WaW, except the demo. It was pretty cool, I was surprised when I shot some dude's leg off though. As for AW: I can't wait to play it. It has the customization of a normal CoD get and more mobility than titanfall (side dashes, ground "slams", that one this a guy did when someone was following behind him, he double jumped then thrust backwards). Its gonna be great.
What I don't understand is why did people call titanfall a rip off of halo and cod, but are now calling AW a rip off of titanfall and halo.....annoys the poop out of me
What I don't understand is why did people call titanfall a rip off of halo and cod, but are now calling AW a rip off of titanfall and halo.....annoys the poop out of me
Megacash: The whole "ripoff" idea is completely idiotic. Most people that say anything is a ripoff of anything have no idea what they're talking about. For example, AW was in the process of being created before Titanfall. People see a futuristic scenery and immediately think "OMG IT'S A COPY OF HALO AND TITANFALL OMG U SUK".
And I agree with you for the most part about Treyarch vs InfinityWard. Blops 2 has been the most balanced and competitive game so far. I will say, though, that Blops 1 had some major hit detection issues as well as map balance issues. Kinda hit or miss with me as far as TreyArch goes. It's like, Blops 2 was my favorite game, Blops 1 was one of my least favorites, and the Infinity Ward games lie in the middle.
Dscigs: I understand you're a big fan of the "trickshotting" community in CoD. I agree that the snipers are extremely imbalanced in Ghosts, which is why there are never montages on the game. All the snipers just went back to Blops 2. In AW there are very high scope-in times, which slows down the quickscopers, but there are also iron sight attachments for snipers which allow for much faster aiming. I think there will be trickshotting in the next game, though. Not that I know much about that community, but I have a strong feeling.
Oracle: From what I've seen of AW, it seems the bullet reg is very good. Better than I've seen out of a CoD. This may be due to the new engine, I'm not sure.
Most pro players will adapt to the map. The "balance" we're referring to is gun v gun, mostly. Like in the beginning of Ghosts, an MTAR-X could outgun the best assault rifle at long range. There's always small maps, and always big maps. The reason they most often use the smaller maps for competitive is because it causes for more action. Spectators drive the competitive scene and small maps cater to them.
And I agree with you for the most part about Treyarch vs InfinityWard. Blops 2 has been the most balanced and competitive game so far. I will say, though, that Blops 1 had some major hit detection issues as well as map balance issues. Kinda hit or miss with me as far as TreyArch goes. It's like, Blops 2 was my favorite game, Blops 1 was one of my least favorites, and the Infinity Ward games lie in the middle.
Dscigs: I understand you're a big fan of the "trickshotting" community in CoD. I agree that the snipers are extremely imbalanced in Ghosts, which is why there are never montages on the game. All the snipers just went back to Blops 2. In AW there are very high scope-in times, which slows down the quickscopers, but there are also iron sight attachments for snipers which allow for much faster aiming. I think there will be trickshotting in the next game, though. Not that I know much about that community, but I have a strong feeling.
Oracle: From what I've seen of AW, it seems the bullet reg is very good. Better than I've seen out of a CoD. This may be due to the new engine, I'm not sure.
Most pro players will adapt to the map. The "balance" we're referring to is gun v gun, mostly. Like in the beginning of Ghosts, an MTAR-X could outgun the best assault rifle at long range. There's always small maps, and always big maps. The reason they most often use the smaller maps for competitive is because it causes for more action. Spectators drive the competitive scene and small maps cater to them.
Originally Posted by Oracle
I'm not talking about map size, I'm talking about proportions. As an example, look at CoD4 and MW2. The room to maneuver dropped heavily during that game. Sure there were some open areas and the like, but overall the proportions between player size and playable area dropped. CoD4 was the pinnacle of map layout and proportions, with Blops coming close with proportions.
To explain why this is an issue, when room to maneuver goes down and distances shrink, smgs get a massive advantage. They have smaller hipfire and higher movement speed as a class, crippled by reduced range. Well if you reduce the maximum range anybody can expect to fight in, range becomes a non-factor, removing the counterbalance to smgs extreme close-mid range power.
The balance of weapons has always been short-mid smg, midshort-midlong rifles, mid-long scopes. The optimal distance you'd want to create then is a mid range, with some crucial long range areas and crucial short areas. In addition, while you want to give smgs room to rush, you don't want their rushing to be worry free. SMGs were supposed to be a gamble weapon. You risk running as deep into enemy territory as you can to get into optimal range. When that range is non-existant, it gets it's rewards for none of the risk. Weapon stats are only half the equation. Map layout dictates which stats are actually useful.
Probably the best designed map to have ever came from cod is backlot from CoD4, sans the mounted mgs. It would take me ages to explain everything, but the major reason for it is that every position favors a weapon, but they are inherently weak in that position because an adjacent position favors a different weapon. An smg playground in the construction area is kept in check by rifles from mid and scopes from apartments, while they themselves are kept in check by smg rush points adjacent to them, which in turn can be covered by rifles, which in turn are vulnerable to scopes, and so on. Every place has it's rewards and risks for each class, and they are all marvelously balanced by the flow and layout of the map. No one weapon is dominant across the map.
Is Backlot the map with the crashed helicopter? If so, that map is fantastic, I only played it in splitscreen with friends but shiet....it was great. That one map, I forgot what it was called, that is EXTREMELY small and with cargo boxes, I actually played it online a few weeks ago, it was so crazy
Last edited by Leaf; Aug 20, 2014 at 08:15 PM.
BenDover: Ghosts actually didn't have iron sight snipers. They had the marksman rifles which allowed iron sights, but not the snipers. I will agree, though. Ghosts was garbage. Don't let Infinity Ward's mistake keep you from buying SledgeHammer's first try. I think AW is going to be one of the best, if not the best CoD yet.
Oracle: I think you're looking at the maps in a public match standpoint, correct? As in 6v6 where everything in the game is allowed? In that case, I can understand your point very clearly. Unless you're playing with people you know and that know how to strategize, you're going to get rushed by SMG's on a lot of maps. The contrary to that is that if you're playing "competitive" CoD with the weapon and equipment restrictions, as well as 4v4 instead of 6v6, it's a different game. No matter how small or how SMG dominant a map is, there is always a place to fit in an Assault Rifle to hold down a lane. Even in the map Megacash was talking about, Shipment. Known as the smallest, and most chaotic and sub dominant map in the game, it still has room for AR's. The crates are laid out in a grid pattern, so you can hold down an entire lane with an AR (particularly the lane with the highest traffic) while the subs run through the other lanes, clear them out, and then push through and slay the rest.
When you get down into the 4v4 competitive scene, there's usually 3 competitive gametypes and 5 or so competitive maps. Most often, the gametypes have been Domination, Capture the Flag, and Search and Destroy. Each gametype is played differently. Like in Domination you'll find more SMG's at the start of the game to get the middle flag and establish position, and once you get the middle flag you'll have a few people pull out AR's to hold cuts and defend the flag. In Capture the Flag, you'll again most often see SMG's off the start in order to slay out and make an effort to get the enemy's flag. Once you have the flag, however, someone who died trying to get the flag could pull out an AR before they respawn and watch over the flag runner from a long distance in order to more safely guide him back to your home. SnD, as you probably know, is much different. This is the only gametype where weapons like snipers and shotguns are used very frequently in competitive, because you only need to kill the guy once in that round, so you're not going to run into multiple situations where you're stuck close range with a sniper or long range with shotgun. SnD is all about holding cuts, which is most often used with a sniper or AR, regardless of the map. Maps do not dictate weapon choice in general when you're referring to SnD. Which you still have people running SMG's to rush up and catch people off guard, and people running LMG's to hold cuts and prefire through walls to check if people are planting the bomb and such.
My point is that public matches are very random and I have a hard time seeing why anyone would play the game if all they played were public matches. I personally cannot stand playing them for more than a few games at a time.
Oracle: I think you're looking at the maps in a public match standpoint, correct? As in 6v6 where everything in the game is allowed? In that case, I can understand your point very clearly. Unless you're playing with people you know and that know how to strategize, you're going to get rushed by SMG's on a lot of maps. The contrary to that is that if you're playing "competitive" CoD with the weapon and equipment restrictions, as well as 4v4 instead of 6v6, it's a different game. No matter how small or how SMG dominant a map is, there is always a place to fit in an Assault Rifle to hold down a lane. Even in the map Megacash was talking about, Shipment. Known as the smallest, and most chaotic and sub dominant map in the game, it still has room for AR's. The crates are laid out in a grid pattern, so you can hold down an entire lane with an AR (particularly the lane with the highest traffic) while the subs run through the other lanes, clear them out, and then push through and slay the rest.
When you get down into the 4v4 competitive scene, there's usually 3 competitive gametypes and 5 or so competitive maps. Most often, the gametypes have been Domination, Capture the Flag, and Search and Destroy. Each gametype is played differently. Like in Domination you'll find more SMG's at the start of the game to get the middle flag and establish position, and once you get the middle flag you'll have a few people pull out AR's to hold cuts and defend the flag. In Capture the Flag, you'll again most often see SMG's off the start in order to slay out and make an effort to get the enemy's flag. Once you have the flag, however, someone who died trying to get the flag could pull out an AR before they respawn and watch over the flag runner from a long distance in order to more safely guide him back to your home. SnD, as you probably know, is much different. This is the only gametype where weapons like snipers and shotguns are used very frequently in competitive, because you only need to kill the guy once in that round, so you're not going to run into multiple situations where you're stuck close range with a sniper or long range with shotgun. SnD is all about holding cuts, which is most often used with a sniper or AR, regardless of the map. Maps do not dictate weapon choice in general when you're referring to SnD. Which you still have people running SMG's to rush up and catch people off guard, and people running LMG's to hold cuts and prefire through walls to check if people are planting the bomb and such.
My point is that public matches are very random and I have a hard time seeing why anyone would play the game if all they played were public matches. I personally cannot stand playing them for more than a few games at a time.
Hmm. Well I've never played 5v5, nor have I ever played CoD on the PC. But you seem to be saying that almost every map has a favoring towards a weapon class, which I don't disagree with. I thought the original claim was that nowadays almost all maps in CoD are SMG dominant, which isn't true. I will agree that almost every competitive map in Ghosts is SMG dominant, but that wasn't the truth in the last game and I don't think it will be that way in the next game. Even in Ghosts there are maps like Octane Domination where you could run 4 AR's and dominate, depending on the situation.
There are definitely advantages for different classes on different maps, and different gametypes for that matter. If what you're looking for is equality of all weapon classes on every map and every gametype, that's impossible. First of all, snipers will never find a competitive advantage on Domination. Never. Shotguns can sometimes be viable on certain maps on Domination and SnD, but not CTF. Pretty much anything on any map of SnD is viable in certain situations.
This is why you don't set certain positions specifically per player. You can't really have a "sniper" on a competitive CoD team, because they couldn't do anything on the respawn gamemodes. You can have an "AR" player, but that doesn't mean they must or even should run an AR on every map/gamemode. It's better to look at what the player is doing, rather than what they're using to define a "position". These positions change in every game, because sometimes they are needed and sometimes they're not. Like in Blops 2, for instance, there was a Support player(usually running an AR to watch over the OBJ and Slayer), an Objective player(usually running SMG, in order to move fast from objective points like hardpoint hills or flags on CTF), Anchor player(Can run basically any weapon, but most often AR. Their responsibility is to hold the good spawns and make the enemy team get bad spawns so they can stay close to the objective.), and a Slayer(fairly self-explanatory. They rotate around the objective points and kill everything to make it easier for the OBJ to do his job.). In Ghosts the positions are a bit different. There's 2 Slayers, an OBJ, and a Support/Slayer. Since there's a 5 second respawn timer and due to the map size and variability, there is no need for an anchor. It's more important to get 4 people on the other team dead, so you have 5 free seconds to do what you can with the objectives.
There are definitely advantages for different classes on different maps, and different gametypes for that matter. If what you're looking for is equality of all weapon classes on every map and every gametype, that's impossible. First of all, snipers will never find a competitive advantage on Domination. Never. Shotguns can sometimes be viable on certain maps on Domination and SnD, but not CTF. Pretty much anything on any map of SnD is viable in certain situations.
This is why you don't set certain positions specifically per player. You can't really have a "sniper" on a competitive CoD team, because they couldn't do anything on the respawn gamemodes. You can have an "AR" player, but that doesn't mean they must or even should run an AR on every map/gamemode. It's better to look at what the player is doing, rather than what they're using to define a "position". These positions change in every game, because sometimes they are needed and sometimes they're not. Like in Blops 2, for instance, there was a Support player(usually running an AR to watch over the OBJ and Slayer), an Objective player(usually running SMG, in order to move fast from objective points like hardpoint hills or flags on CTF), Anchor player(Can run basically any weapon, but most often AR. Their responsibility is to hold the good spawns and make the enemy team get bad spawns so they can stay close to the objective.), and a Slayer(fairly self-explanatory. They rotate around the objective points and kill everything to make it easier for the OBJ to do his job.). In Ghosts the positions are a bit different. There's 2 Slayers, an OBJ, and a Support/Slayer. Since there's a 5 second respawn timer and due to the map size and variability, there is no need for an anchor. It's more important to get 4 people on the other team dead, so you have 5 free seconds to do what you can with the objectives.
Last edited by Clay; Aug 24, 2014 at 02:27 AM.