I've given you evidence that 210 million are being oppressed. You're ignorantly refusing to see the distinction between the feeling of oppression and institutionalised oppression again.


Click. Islamic women from 47 countries got together to lobby for equal rights. Type in 'Timbuktu 200 women' and you'll see a protest against sharia is Mali, in which the 200 women were subsequently jailed. There are very many disincentives that stop women from protesting sharia, some of them being the same disincentives that stop women from reporting rape.

There's parts of the article I posted that I'm going to paste, since they validate my prior argument about context, and how there was a time and place for sharia, but now there isn't. It also speaks to my post before, about we should be doing our best to improve Iranian relations since they're our natural ally, rather than do our best to retard relations.

The article says, "She referred to the work of Muslim intellectuals, like Nasr Abu Zayd of Egypt and Abdolkarim Soroush of Iran, among others, reformers who argue that the Koran must be read in historical context, and that laws derived from it - stoning for adultery, for example - can change with the times. Both men are in exile in the West.

Mir-Hosseini argues that Muslim societies are trapped in a battle between two visions of Islam. One, legalistic and absolutist, emphasizes the past. The other is pluralistic and more inclined toward democracy. In Iran, reformers were gaining ground, she said, but President George W. Bush's war on terror put them on the defensive."

Neither Mali nor Malaysia fully implements sharia, that's all I can say for now(seems like you had to look outside of the 200 million to find evidence), I will do more research and hopefully get back to this on the weekend. Along with the links I mentioned.

"Free will is the ability of agents to make choices unimpeded by certain prevailing factors." Agent = women, impeding factors = sharia law.


These criticisms aren't just coming from the West, you know.
As I posted earlier, there is a big movement within Islam to 'historicize' the Quran.
Here's a good example,
"He says that Islamic scriptures were written at a time when the dominant culture in the Middle East was patriarchal, and must be read in this context. “The Koran must be historicized before applying it to modern issues,” he told me. Musawah is undertaking an extensive knowledge-building project on the issue of male authority over women in an effort to fight for family-law reforms." http://www.musawah.org/rise-islamic-feminists

And also, the other quote I mentioned earlier;
"She referred to the work of Muslim intellectuals, like Nasr Abu Zayd of Egypt and Abdolkarim Soroush of Iran, among others, reformers who argue that the Koran must be read in historical context, and that laws derived from it - stoning for adultery, for example - can change with the times. Both men are in exile in the West.

Mir-Hosseini argues that Muslim societies are trapped in a battle between two visions of Islam. One, legalistic and absolutist, emphasizes the past. The other is pluralistic and more inclined toward democracy. In Iran, reformers were gaining ground, she said, but President George W. Bush's war on terror put them on the defensive."

And here's a list of "organizations and campaigns [that] are a part of a diverse and active global movement of Muslim women’s activism.” http://www.wisemuslimwomen.org/activism/region/C58/P0/

@xlr84life
See, there's plenty of people disgruntled with the status quo.

No. Not to the extent of sharia. You need to be less firm with your words.


Whole countries are moving towards Western values. As I've posted Iran did once, and is on the right path now to doing the same.


What it actually means is that women are unhappy that their culture is oppressing them.


Yes. Oh is she poking the fire? Is she stimulating the discussion? Trying to get people talking about the issue? Oh? Screw her then, right?

A few rich Saudi princes don't really represent the majority.




When the people in your country don't really have internet access, do you really expect their oppressed wimminz to hop on their blog and write a few lines on how they got beaten today for not wearing their full-body towels properly?

That is not what he says, not by a longshot. I am sure he would not sign that statement.
Strawmen are very dishonest. Stop it.

Please, Qatar has the highest average salary in the world, with an average salary of around $80,000. Id say the majority of them dont travel on camels and goats as you suggest.

Although shariah is oppressive it is not nearly as widespread as suggested by ele, it is prevalent in middle eastern LEDCs almost exclusively.

Meanwhile there are far more oppressive things not linked to the muslim religion, do I need mention the world wars?

Also, the qur'an cannot be pointed out for sexism without other religions being mentioned as well:

-Christianity:
Corinthians 11: 3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

Corinthians 14: 34 - 35 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

-Judaism
Genesis 19:8 A man named Lot offers his daughters to a crowd of would be angel rapers. Later, Lot impregnates his own daughters after God kills his wife for simply looking back at the remains of her city.

Exodus 21: 3-4 Says that if a male slave is given a wife by his master (regardless of how long they are wed, how much they love each other or if they have kids) he can not leave servanthood with his wife or children. The woman and children are merely property of the master and their personal happiness or sanctity of family doesnt matter.

Exodus 21:7 God not only sanctions selling ones daughter into slavery, but he also gives out laws on how it should be done.

-Hindu
No sacrifice, no vow, no fast must be performed by women apart (from their husbands); if a wife obeys her husband, she will for that (reason alone) be exalted in heaven.

Though destitute of virtue, or seeking pleasure (elsewhere), or devoid of good qualities, (yet) a husband must be constantly worshipped as a god by a faithful wife.

At her pleasure let her emaciate her body by (living on) pure flowers, roots, and fruit; but she must never even mention the name of another man after her husband has died.

In childhood a female must be subject to her father, in youth to her husband, when her lord is dead to her sons; a woman must never be independent.



Please stop calling Islam an oppressive and sexist religion, as although it is true that there is sexism and oppression in Islam there is easily as much in other religions and society as a whole.

I am sorry, but you can't tell me that comparing the oppression of women in Islam to the Holocaust is a coherent train of thought.


That is not what Hyde said. He said that xlr84life would agree that sending Jews to concentration camps is a humane way of treating them due to his stance on women rights in Islam.
That is a ridiculous strawman to the point where it's just a personal insult.

I don't think that's fair. The evidence (e.g. that map of sharia by application I posted earlier) points to the majority of Mesopotamia and the Arabic Pennisula as having implemented full sharia law (criminal code included). If you google 'LEDCs' you'll see (here) that only one of the Middle Eastern countries that've implemented sharia fully is classified as a LEDC.


"There's worse things in the world, so why are we even talking about this?" isn't a good argument to make.

I think he's saying Muslims are not terrorists, rather than not all Muslims are terrorists.

In which case he'd be wrong. Radical Muslims are still Muslims. They're interpreting the same faith, albeit in a more violent, death-oriented way.

But, he's right in implying that your everyday Muslim isn't to blame. The same way that your everyday Christian isn't to blame for all the bad stuff going on with it.

@Pig, I'm done with discussing this with you.