Originally Posted by DrHax
I can agree that lenshu3ng is insanely high up on the list for consistency of good players beating the worse player. Mwah and Gynx brought up excellent points, and I want to follow up on one Mwah in particular said:
Boy howdy is it ever. Because if you're moving to get away from the opponent, while dealing with the gravity, with the low enough turn frames to allow the chaser to change course, while staying inside the dojo, while avoiding DQ , it asks a lot of you to not also be vulnerable. A fast chaser usually catches a runner on the head, and that "bonk" means the runner will have less points and now is moving away from his opponent.
I do agree running from the fight efficiently inside a dojo requires skill, the dojo does make it way harder as you have to stop your momentum to change trajectory before the chasing player reaches you. But that doesn't mean it's a skill that should be kept around, if by any means we can get rid of running away from the fight in a fighting game, it should be done. It's a boring way to play, and that's not what people have in mind when they join a fighting game which main idea is to design your own moves.
But that's kinda off-topic I guess, it's more about what should be done to make a few mods more consistent rather than what mods are the most consistent presently.
Last edited by deprav; May 6, 2015 at 02:01 AM.
Originally Posted by Gynx
People are more likely to compete in mods that are reliant on skill in order to win. In a perfect competitive setting a good player will beat a bad player every single time in a 1v1 match-up and players of equal skill will always have close games if they play to their maximum potential. Of course, this is assuming that the game has enough depth in its mechanics and skill ceiling that allows good players to extrapolate their lead to a point where they can essentially "shit on kids". I believe Toribash has both the mechanical depth and the difficulty curve to justify the skill ceiling, the only issue is that there's no current mod outside of lenshu3ng.tbm that allows for a player to utilise those to their fullest extent. Most (if not all) other mods have some sort of restriction that reduces the amount of skill required to beat the better player and they are often complained about (see: shovelling, wushu running, first turn dm judo openers, sketchy taekkyon dms). Nothing is wrong with playing those mods competitively, but the question asked in the OP was "what mod can good players beat people in the most consistently?" The answer will always be "the mod that allows the players to utilise all of their skill and game knowledge the most extensively". That mod is lenshu3ng.tbm.
"the mod that allows the players to utilise all of their skill and game knowledge the most extensively". That mod is lenshu3ng.tbm, for you ;o. Probably because you're used to heavy gravity mods, amiright ?
I don't think there's any objective answer to the OP question tbh. If you deem lenshu3ng.tbm to be the best competitive mod, then you can put rk-mma.tbm and wushu_2015.tbm on the same list. They share the same core, but with slightly different way to play because of different gravity and different dojo size.
It's like comparing Tennis and Table Tennis, they're both "equally competitive", they both ~kinda~ share the same set of rules and objectives, but differently. Then it all comes down to the player's tastes or personnal experience.
I think we can only single out mods that are terrible competitively (like judo or jousting), but we can't objectively point to the mod having the most consistency when it comes to competition.
Like : "the mod that allows the players to utilise all of their skill and game knowledge the most extensively" // "skill ceiling that allows good players to extrapolate their lead to a point where they can essentially "shit on kids"
It's true for pretty much any official mod, but each mod doesn't require the same set of skills or appreciation of the game. If you want players to be able to utilise ALL of their skills & knowledge, you'd need a ladder or competition format including all of those mods separatly.
Originally Posted by ThePirateKing
I feel like in ABD, everything is counterable, as long as you have the skill to do so. Even misclicks or "spaces" can be saved.
yes, but ABD is quite simplistic in its playstyle.
most of the time it ends in both people grabbing each other at some point and then they are pushing themselfe's around in the dojo while attempting to DQ the other one. which most likely will happen at the outside if someone is "way" better.
if 2 equally good people play it most likely will end with the time running out except someone made a mistake.
"missclicks" and "spaces" are a thing that should NOT happen in competitive matches in any way.
maybe the right way to deal with that is to not search for ONE certain mod.
probably we need a few mods, which all require a diffrent aspect of the game to master to be good at.
lets say TK and Lenshu, the mods are quite different and need different things to win.
this way people dont "dominate" and the ones who are winning in all of them are the real good people, because they are able to master the most important things off the game.
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Helping admins since 2013 (Can't ya'll leave this alone?)
Reta's Bitch, Property of Kriegery, Bribed by Bird, Tinerr 4 President.
Awaken, awaken, awaken, awaken. Take the land, that must be taken. Awaken, awaken, awaken, awaken. Devour worlds, smite forsaken
Originally Posted by DrHax
Let me be clear:
Pendulum Jumper, like tic tac toe, is a solved game. You can guarantee a win or tie no matter what.
We're talking about when a pro plays an average player.
I apologize for not reading the whole thread yet, but how do we know the pro losing to an average player isn't just the human factor?
I know when I get bored with playing ABD I tend to randomly lose against people, which has little to do with the mod or my skill.
PM me with any and all questions
While I would agree that lenshu3ng.tbm is the most consistent mod, I wouldn't be so generous as to say that 10 out of 10 times, the better player wins.
I'd say that between two advanced players, 50% of the time the better player wins. Think of very good lenshu players like tooorasooh(sp?), Biaker, and xJuicy. I've played each of them multiple times and I've beaten them before, despite them being clearly better players than myself.
On my best day and Biaker's worst day, I will probably beat him 2/5 times.
I'd say that between two advanced players, 50% of the time the better player wins. Think of very good lenshu players like tooorasooh(sp?), Biaker, and xJuicy. I've played each of them multiple times and I've beaten them before, despite them being clearly better players than myself.
On my best day and Biaker's worst day, I will probably beat him 2/5 times.
