Toribash
Lets not forget dedication and patience is a type of skill as well.
As it turns out MP players don't seem to account the fact that SP player also are challenged and have to overcome problems.

Jaker allegendly spent 80+ hours on a single replay. Being able to dedicate that much time to a single task isn't easy at all, especially when you regularly have to scrap several hours of work because it didn't turn out the exact way you wanted it to.
Theoretically a monkey could write shakespear, as Larfen pointed out. With enough luck hitting the right buttons anything could write theatre, even a branch in the wind.
The chance of a treebranch hitting the right letters on a keyboard for it to form an act is abysmally small though and statistically it would take millions of years of scraping documents for this to actually occur(no source, just making numbers up).
However, if I were to attempt a shakespear quality text I'd likely be able to do it. Sure it would take me several years probably but eventually the result would be fantastic.
Shakespear himself however would be able to humiliate my efforts by writing a similair quality text in what? 0,01 percent of the time?

To round this up, make an extremely high quality replay takes a lot of time. The more skilled you are at the game the less time it will take. And ingame skill can of course be improved.
Originally Posted by Dscigs View Post
mp consists of making moves to be effective. sp consists of taking time to make precise movements to look pretty.

you don't need to spend weeks to make a good replay, its merely that some people do. in mp there are no good replays, there are good strategies.

Im with this guy.
in SP i dont do anything good because im lazy,then i dont wanna move uke if it is a spar,in parkour its easy
Running away...
How many great SP players is there? Idk but off the top I can name about 10 legendery players and about 20 other very good ones.

How many great MP players is there right now? Very very few, less than 5 i'd say. (And when i say great MP player I mean someone who plays all mods to the top level) maybe even people could say no one has achieved top level in MP.

People will start replying to me with all these old players like Odlov, Ticux, Logic, blah blah blah... they arn't very good players compared to modern day players.

But I do have respect for single player people because it does take a new level of dedication and repetition.
Last edited by FistofLife; Jul 21, 2015 at 06:35 PM.
Originally Posted by FistofLife View Post
How many great SP players is there? Idk but off the top I can name about 10 legendery players and about 20 other very good ones.

How many great MP players is there right now? Very very few, less than 5 i'd say. (And when i say great MP player I mean someone who plays all mods to the top level) maybe even people could say no one has achieved top level in MP.

People will start replying to me with all these old players like Odlov, Ticux, Logic, blah blah blah... they arn't very good players compared to modern day players.

But I do have respect for single player people because it does take a new level of dedication and repetition.

There are more than 100 main mods in Toribash,i think nobody can get the top level in all
Running away...
Originally Posted by Superseba View Post
There are more than 100 main mods in Toribash,i think nobody can get the top level in all

This is exaclty the point he is making, it would take a ridiculous amount of time and effort to get to top level in the variety of "competitive" mods that there are
Don't dm me pictures of bowls that you find attractive.
Originally Posted by pusga View Post
in multiplayer, you are free to create your own alternative goals in any match, but it is not essential. the mod you are playing gives you the rules, and it will necessarily decide a winner and a loser (unless it's a draw, then the game decided both played equally well) by the end of the match. you cannot ignore the objective goals, even if you make your main goal something personal like ripping off both your hand and throwing them at your opponent. I am not saying that I value winning over showcasing tori control or other skills, but the game will not givei you any credit for trying to handicap youself and then failing to beat the other opponent, and it will not reward you if you handicap yourself and then beat the opponent either.

again, not saying that this is all MP and SP are made of, but it is their core. you can complicate multiplayer as much as you want, but it will not reward you in any way, and if you feel like it should then maybe you should be playing another game. the only reward you can possibly receive is pride and joy in completing a personal goal.

Winning in MP is not essential in become a great player. Doesn't matter if you lose or win a game. Showcasing your knowledge of the game mechanics and being able to understand why you used/didn't use those joint states in that certain position to create moves and planning ahead of time is what it takes to be a good player.

If all you want to do is win then sure, go ahead, take that 10tc victory, increase that ELO of yours and stay in tori position for a few more games, but does that make you the better player always? No. The reward for winning is basically being able to stay in the 1st spot, nothing else, so you may as well win with decent moves (play the game it was supposed to be played imo).
Originally Posted by SmallBowl View Post
This is exaclty the point he is making, it would take a ridiculous amount of time and effort to get to top level in the variety of "competitive" mods that there are

Well 100 mods is a massive exaggeration.
Spar, TK, ABD, Aikido, Rk-mma, Lenshu3ng, wushu, mushu.
These 7 mods pretty much cover everything you could ever need in multiplayer. ( hope i didn't miss any)
Originally Posted by Holotor View Post
Winning in MP is not essential in become a great player. Doesn't matter if you lose or win a game. Showcasing your knowledge of the game mechanics and being able to understand why you used/didn't use those joint states in that certain position to create moves and planning ahead of time is what it takes to be a good player.

If all you want to do is win then sure, go ahead, take that 10tc victory, increase that ELO of yours and stay in tori position for a few more games, but does that make you the better player always? No. The reward for winning is basically being able to stay in the 1st spot, nothing else, so you may as well win with decent moves (play the game it was supposed to be played imo).

why are you even playing this game if you don't believe that its definition of winning corresponds to the performance of the better player?
oh yeah
Originally Posted by pusga View Post
why are you even playing this game if you don't believe that its definition of winning corresponds to the performance of the better player?

Excuse me? Are you literally saying that every single player online right now is playing solely to win? This is a game not an e-sport, stop treating it like a fucking e-sport. People are allowed to have fun with this game instead of playing like a piece of wood every single game. God damn.
Originally Posted by Holotor View Post
Excuse me? Are you literally saying that every single player online right now is playing solely to win? This is a game not an e-sport, stop treating it like a fucking e-sport. People are allowed to have fun with this game instead of playing like a piece of wood every single game. God damn.

well first of all simmer down, dont be mad because a virtual electronic kung fu player on the internet doesnt agree with you

second, it's good to know you didn't read my post in which i clearly and almost redundantly explain how, besides the core and objective rules of the game, you can set any goals you wish and you can make them as important as you want and how they do not necessarily make you a better player and how you can not give a shit about winning at all

if you think that i value winning over showcasing tori knowledge in a multiplayer match, you have failed completely in reading my posts. here we go again:


In a multiplayer match, you are always rated on your performance vs the other player in the form of being given a victory or a loss. I am not saying that this is a correct form to measure who is the better player, I am saying that whether you like it or not the game will always rate you in function of the rules of the game and what you did. This is an objective classification that is always given to you. Without this evaluation, it would be completely unclear what the rules of the game even are, which means that if there is a game, THERE NEED TO BE RULES THAT DETERMINE A WINNER OTHERWISE THERE IS NO GAME BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IS RIGHT TO DO OR WHAT IS WRONG TO DO, AS WE ARE NOT PUNISHED FOR ANYTHING WE DO.

The game revolves around these rules, whether you like it or not. When you make your personal goals, you are completely disregarding the rules, which is perfectly fine. However, if there are no rules in the first place, you have no rules to ignore, which means that "being creative" is not possible. You need rules so that you know how to disregard them. You can't colour outside the lines if there are no lines.

All that shit said, my point is that the objective rules of the game are the core of multiplayer. They are necessary for you to be able to "goof around" and be an edgy "lol i didnt even want to win". Alternative goals are as important as you want.


also heres a funny thing

I never ever said in this post that winning in multiplayer is essential to becoming a good player, I simply said the opposite - achieving your alternative goals does not make you a good player. You somehow managed to understand it completely wrong.


stop being mad at things i never said
oh yeah