Originally Posted by pouffywall

Chess. A game about strategy and "guesswork(used veeerryyy lightly)." Now, you have chess where you have 20 pieces(joints) and all those pieces work in both subtle and significant ways with each other, and not even the best players know entirely how to utilize them. Likewise to chess, a lot of the match depends on thinking at the very least into the next turn. If you play following your ghost you'll only go so far. In chess, you don't even have the luxury of a ghost to tell you what to do and guide your every move. It's entirely "guesswork" and strategy. That's what turn based games are, and I would LOVE to see the look on Garry Kasparov's face when you tell him that chess is akin to rock-paper-scissors. This "it's not competitive" thing sounds like an argument based entirely on salt.

I'm not saying ToriBash is as advanced as chess, but they're obviously similar in the sense that they are turn based and that advanced play hinges on the idea that you can predict what your opponent will do (or, in the case of chess, stay one step ahead of them). I'm sure most people, though, are too focused on obtaining mastery of movements of their joints to realize that there is an entirely different aspect to gameplay, whether you like it or not.

Is it safe to say the thread is officially derailed now? I think the people who've commented have pretty much said the ranks aren't really working and we're in dire need of an update. Competition in this game works on a small scale and in controlled environments, but so much can (and has) gone wrong with the ranking system that I think a lot of people have lost hope.

Originally Posted by PACKET

Annnd congratulations smallbowl you have proven everything everyone has been saying. You are basically the only one here saying that toribash is not competitive, and that the tourneys are fine, aswell as the rank system being fine. "but I believe the patch that hopefully will come sooon should fix that" how many times have we heard that?

For once in your life can you open your mind and appreciate what the majority are saying and start looking for FLAWS rather than always being on the defense.

You have never been a high skilled player before in toribash so why are you telling a bunch of high skilled players about how to make a skill based tourney and rank system... please stop being so defensive and start looking for ways to improve.

Originally Posted by PACKET

Oh i have never tried? Apart from when i talk on IRC every day about improvements from about late 2013 to early 2015.

I told you in this thread a very very very simple solution. First to 5 instead of first to 3, and first to 7 in finals. Your theory about people not having enough time to play an extra 4 games or so is a load of rubbish.

Real solution is to have matchmaking, make a pool of mods, e.g. RK, TK, Lenshu, ABD, etc. One is selected by random (Players could both veto 1 mod each to increase fairness). The format in which players compete would be a first to 5 duel.

Ranking would be worked out by the formula: Wins - losses. So if you win a ranked search 5-3 then you get +2 points and your opponent gets -2. Your points are added up and stack untill the next reset. Players are matched on the amount of points they have. E.g. If you are +50 then you will be matched with someone who is also +50 (or the nearest online, like +20 or +30, depending on who is playing). If you lose more than you win then your score might be -15 and you will be matched with someone similar.

There you go, toribash competitive solved... its very simple. Where is the problem with this idea?

and I wrote up a document to overhaul the overhaul.

Originally Posted by pouffywall

Why isn't stuff like this released to the rest of the community? I honestly don't get the cloak and dagger of any of this. If you're drafting something that's going to be released to the entirety of the community, wouldn't you want to allow people who are genuinely interested in looking at it actually see what's going on and offer their opinions?

Originally Posted by pouffywall

Which is why I said "genuinely interested" c ;

I didn't mean throw the entire thing on a thread and let everyone have at it. That would be a fucking mess. I mean allow people who show genuine interest in having a say and helping develop this. Although, I suppose if you were that interested you'd already have applied to... is this something passed along the staff team in general or...? *Sigh* Either way, I think it's something to consider.

I don't know how you guys would figure all that out, but it would be better to at least get a handful of opinions outside the circles that you're already discussing in. You can tell a lot about a person by where they hang around and what they're involved in, and I think reaching and and grabbing people from nonincluded circles to grab a variety of ideas would be beneficial in something like this. Especially for the reason that releasing something so big without getting opinions from everyone could end up warranting yet another overhaul.

My highschool teacher for AP Statistics, I think, told us something that could be used as a valid analogy for this.

"Say you were doing a study, and you were trying to find out how many people in this school like math. Now, instead of responsibly taking a random sample, you walked into this room, during this hour, and had all the students in this room take the survey. Do you think those results would be anywhere near representative of the entire school?"

(AP Statistics isn't a required course, as you proooobably know. A ton of math is involved in the course.)

Originally Posted by SmallBowl

I see your argument, more opinions - more success kind of thing.

But at the same time, too many chefs spoil the broth is definitely a phrase that applies here. Opening it up would also result in more pressure than there already is, so another rushed system would probably be released, probably creating more problems than it solved

Originally Posted by SmallBowl

Just a note the ranks are not done, a few updates have been suggested and discussed wirhin the GMs but due to a few pivotal people being somewhat inactive, or being busy with other things its not being pushed forward so much.