Okay, seriously, this is a huge help and thank you very much for doing this. I'm a little lost in this whole thing and an "expert opinon" helps me a lot.
Originally Posted by
panttersin
Going to comment on kicking since thats my special area.
First of all, I personally believe in default toris for competitive play. Every comp mod should have the same tori in my opinion. From a mod making standpoint custom toris are more interesting. But for a player, having one tori to learn absolutely perfectly is the way to go. Learning each mods meta, playstyle and adjusting that to gravity is already a task. Learning a different tori for each mod on top of that doesnt feel right.
Ill go over all the points briefly, and compare them to the current best competitive kicking mod, erthtkv2.
The way I see it, it's about adjusting the tori to the meta. I mean, it's been 10 years since toribash came out. A lot of mod and gameplay related development has happened, but everyone still plays with toris whose wrists give as many points as their necks. Of course, that's up to debate and from here on out I'll probably start working from two versions of the mod just to compare and contrast.
(the changes I've made are actually extremely subtle, and you might not have ever noticed them if I didn't point them out)
Ah, and I should probably warn that I'm a lenshu player, so I'll make a lot of loose comparisons to there. It's all I'm really familiar with, so I've drawn on a bit of my knowledge there to try to make blumbering around in the dark making a kicking mod a bit easier.
I think wrist dms are not as big of a problem as they are made out to be BUT increasing wrist dm threshold is a welcome change. with the 120 dm of erthtk and the 100 of TK wrists are pretty glassy. Just make it sure you cant punch into a kick with an extended wrist and that should be fine.
Now that you bring that up, the thresholds on the wrists might be a bit high. I haven't payed a whole lot of attention to exactly how I've used them in testing (I've been a lot more focused on how suddenly versatile and reliable they are lmao).
I disagree with this. If you have played erthtk as a duel mod or on a "high level" you'll know that shoveling is actually pretty god damn strong. And there are only a few ways to counter a 100% defence openers, one of them being shin/ankle kicks. Removing power from ankle kicks would increase the already strong "ultradefensive" play.
Alright, noted. I think I already have a way in mind that I can redesign the point gradients on the legs.
I mostly took the idea there from my experience in lenshu3ng.tbm. Legs are typically the primary tool for striking there, and because they are such "high traffic" areas, a lot of bumps and scrapes occur that can literally be chalked down to nothing but bad luck. Nerfing the points in the legs a bit solves the problem tremendously there, although I did overlook the fact that you have a lot more control over what you're doing in tk mods than you do in lenshu3ng or rk-mma.
I don't think this is really a problem with the current kicking mod
Well, not with erthtkv2. Although, it was an issue in an earlier version of the mod where the thresholds were just simple gradients up the limbs. It was actually a little humourous. But yeah, I just wanted to clarify that, as on paper it looks a little bit odd.
I personally dont like idea of a cage since you can use it to create alot of force when otherwise it shouldn't be possible. When you have a surface other than the floor to push from, you dont have to worry about your balance as much. But I'm not going to say that a cage is an absolutely a bad idea, just a personal prefrence.
In testing, I have noticed that a little bit. I can't say whether it makes gameplay worse or not, but it does definitely change gameplay. I'll see if I can think of any other alternatives to a dojo other than the cage.
-15.68 seems like an oddly specific number but 15 is a good gravity for kicking for sure
Okay, this one was totally because I'm a bit of a special snowflake. Won't lie there. I have a thing for the number 68. I can always clean the number up (and I tend to in final versions)
I completely disagree with this, for the same reason as I disagree with the tori mods. Competitive mods should have consistency! No other mod has a weird number like 13 in it, and I believe you would add it just to make your mod "special", not because it would benefit the gameplay. Learning a new 13 frame jump that is slightly different from the standard 10, just feels pointless.
Surprisingly enough, unlike the above 15.68 thing (which is actually a bit embarrassing when you point it out lmao) 13 wasn't arbitrarily chosen. Something I've learned from playing lenshu3ng and rk-mma is that a lot can change with just a small adjustment to the tf. Heck, even adjusting lenshu's 30 tf to 25 makes blocking a lot easier and more manageable, because you do have that opportunity to react.
The other side of the coin is, if you make the tf too minute you just can't do anything in a turn. What I was trying to do with the 13 tf is balance that a bit better: reaction vs. action, I suppose. I mean, just adding 3 frames to each turn added 45 frames total to the match.
At least, that's what was going through my head when I tried it out. Of course, everything in the mod is pretty experimental since kicking isn't my forte, so changing it won't leave me butthurt or anything.
As a conclusion. Random dms arent too much of a problem that you need to raise the DM to be like 180 or anything that high. I honestly think all around 140 is enough, but thats just me. Strict no from me for the mod tori. Other than that, all the points seem quite functional.
And one thing to remember is that the more speed you add, the less control you give.