Originally Posted by Virus
If you can say something as useless as that then you could at least say why and I can show you why you're wrong
I feel that you're the type of person that just goes off the media with no real evidence
I do agree with him to an extent though, I would consider Bernie an "acceptable" president, not that my opinion matters, he has some socialist ideals yes - but he is far easier to trust than Hillary for obvious reasons and not discriminatory like Trump.
In addition @Surfings, while Bernie's proposed $15/hour minimum wage seems very extreme, I find it hard to believe that would be achieved in the too near future, to the point where inflation makes the change not as extreme as it first seems. With current inflation forcecasts and an estimate of this being achieved in 2020 (I doubt it would be as soon as this but Sanders said "several years") the US $ is set to be 0.90 times as valuable as it is now, which would make the increase to effectively $13.5 rather than $15, a gradual increase in minimum wage would also give businesses time to adapt to the change making it a lot more manageable for them.
And as for the tax complaints, Bernie didnt suggest any changes below $250,000 yearly income, even at this level the change is only 2%. In addition the tax cap is 52% at $10,000,000 which is isnt really comparable to French super tax, which has now been removed. The amounts of money we are talking about are not really going to affect many "doctors/engineers/etc" as you suggested because they very very rarely earn this much, it is most likely only really going to have a big impact on stockbrokers, CEOs etc
http://www.bernietax.com/#0;0
I entered in some pretty typical Engineer/Doctor earnings/health insurance cost - giving this result
http://www.bernietax.com/#103800;5000 - this system is very unlikely to deter engineers and doctors etc
Last edited by SmallBowl; Sep 22, 2016 at 02:12 AM.
Don't dm me pictures of bowls that you find attractive.
Originally Posted by Surfings
My bad, just named some high paying jobs off the top of my head. You're right about the tax point, I just don't agree with it due to political opinions (I'm moderately anti-socialism/anti communism, and very pro-capitalism). If I were making 10,000,000 I wouldn't want over half my income taken and redistributed, so I don't expect others to want to give it either.
If the change was implemented, my family would be affected though (I'm not going to specifically say the annual income, but it's upwards of 250k).
Thats fair, but the fact is that the people that are heavily affected still have in the millions in disposable income, so while it might prevent them from having their new Lamborghini made from gold, it wouldnt stop them having a car or eating well - what Im trying to say is that the increased tax on the incredibly rich has a smaller effect on them than an increased tax on the poor.
In addition, at the level of 250k, the different we are talking about is an extra 2% of the money over 250k, so if your family was to earn 350k the difference would be as low as 2k.
Don't dm me pictures of bowls that you find attractive.
A general answer to the last few posts against taxing the obnoxiously high incomes, two points in particular :
"Capitalism is the reason for people wanting difficult and strenuous jobs, the idea that you're rewarded for hard work."
Who's to say people who earn millions have harder jobs than, I don't know... nurses, cops, firefighters, teachers, construction workers, doctors, lawyers, social workers etc... SOME people want SOME jobs because of the income, because what they like is making money, some people want some jobs because that's the only way they can eat, some people want some jobs because that's their vocation, some people wants no job and do what they like (art, sport, travelling, not taking part in the general assfuck fest that is the modern economic model), and some people are where they are because their daddy give them 1M to play with.
Everyone -well, most people- works hard, the myth of the "hard working self-made man" earning millions because he works harder than others is just that, a myth ; the icon of the capitalist ideology, the "new hero". To win millions you do not have to work harder than others, you must have the desire to be above others and step on people's face.
"If I were making 10,000,000 I wouldn't want over half my income taken and redistributed, so I don't expect others to want to give it either."
If someone's earning 10M a year, it means he got himself a little empire with people working for him, customers buying his services/products, other smaller companies producing or moving his shiet etc... PEOPLE "fueling" his little empire everyday, without people he gets nothing... so maybe he owes more to other people than he owes to himself in the end.
Without other people he would just be a sad and scared hairless monkey trying to survive.
It's still about the same "self-made man" myth : someone doesn't "make himself", we're a social species, living in society with each other, living the life we live because of others with us and before us. We're part of one big macrocosm, rich people are rich because they knew how to take advantage of society for their own profit, giving back to society is the bare minimum.
"I'm not in favour of increasing tax across all brackets, but the argument that people can just trim the fat could be applied to all brackets."
And it is, people who earn normal and low incomes contribute to society and pay taxes, they're even the reason why rich people are rich. The difference is you still live a more comfortable life being taxed 50% of 10M than paying 10% of 1500$.
"Capitalism is the reason for people wanting difficult and strenuous jobs, the idea that you're rewarded for hard work."
Who's to say people who earn millions have harder jobs than, I don't know... nurses, cops, firefighters, teachers, construction workers, doctors, lawyers, social workers etc... SOME people want SOME jobs because of the income, because what they like is making money, some people want some jobs because that's the only way they can eat, some people want some jobs because that's their vocation, some people wants no job and do what they like (art, sport, travelling, not taking part in the general assfuck fest that is the modern economic model), and some people are where they are because their daddy give them 1M to play with.
Everyone -well, most people- works hard, the myth of the "hard working self-made man" earning millions because he works harder than others is just that, a myth ; the icon of the capitalist ideology, the "new hero". To win millions you do not have to work harder than others, you must have the desire to be above others and step on people's face.
"If I were making 10,000,000 I wouldn't want over half my income taken and redistributed, so I don't expect others to want to give it either."
If someone's earning 10M a year, it means he got himself a little empire with people working for him, customers buying his services/products, other smaller companies producing or moving his shiet etc... PEOPLE "fueling" his little empire everyday, without people he gets nothing... so maybe he owes more to other people than he owes to himself in the end.
Without other people he would just be a sad and scared hairless monkey trying to survive.
It's still about the same "self-made man" myth : someone doesn't "make himself", we're a social species, living in society with each other, living the life we live because of others with us and before us. We're part of one big macrocosm, rich people are rich because they knew how to take advantage of society for their own profit, giving back to society is the bare minimum.
"I'm not in favour of increasing tax across all brackets, but the argument that people can just trim the fat could be applied to all brackets."
And it is, people who earn normal and low incomes contribute to society and pay taxes, they're even the reason why rich people are rich. The difference is you still live a more comfortable life being taxed 50% of 10M than paying 10% of 1500$.
Last edited by deprav; Sep 23, 2016 at 06:19 PM.
I don't have a problem with people with money, I've a problem with capitalism. Because capitalism has become a problem.
And yes inequality is necessary for a capitalist society to function, that's why it's fundamentally anti-democratic, and that's why it's collapsing like all the other systems buried underneath.
And yes inequality is necessary for a capitalist society to function, that's why it's fundamentally anti-democratic, and that's why it's collapsing like all the other systems buried underneath.
Last edited by deprav; Sep 24, 2016 at 12:58 AM.
just, wow. I'm not quite sure if you're trolling or being serious.
But considering the depth of your argumentation, I think I've got a suitable answer :
But considering the depth of your argumentation, I think I've got a suitable answer :
Last edited by deprav; Sep 25, 2016 at 12:58 PM.
