The sub-feeder-clan thing could be easily moderated (like this!) but no doubt people would throw a stink over that (like this!).

As for my actual point in that paragraph, there's no good way to moderate the number of sub-clans without discriminating in some way: whether that's first-come-first-serve (bullshit), or some sort of "top three" (also bullshit). Without controlling their number in some way, you open the community up into being stratified into a few different clans, really removing the heart from much of the community.

Allowing sub-clans isn't a slippery slope, it's a gate protecting the community from these sort of almost predatory clans, and it's disappointing to see you to cry wolf like that to defend some bullshit.

As for my other points: Im actually right. (see basic agrees)

Literally 1 person mentioned tribe and he's since apologised and taken it back

Anyway, like has been said a million times here, keep any discussion civil regardless of what side of the fence you're on. Trying to have a reasonable discussion in this place is like trying to play chess with a pigeon

Do what? Firstly, no one is trying to moderate the number of subclans. Thats like trying to moderate the number of unofficial clans in this game, which there is no limit to, and there are no requirements to make them anymore. Literally everyone could have their own clan. No one cares about the number of clans here.

Then saying if you don't moderate the number of subclans the community will be basically divided into only a few different clans? How is this even possible? Do you see how many clans there are in this community, official and unofficial alike? The best part about having a community is the freedom to choose whatever you want to do. No one forces anyone to join any clan. Having subclans will not destroy the rest of the clans. Do you think having subclans will just absolutely stop everyone from joining the already existing clans? No, people will join whichever clan they want to be apart of. If someone likes the people and feelings of another clan, they will obviously join that clan over another, regardless of what the clan is, they will be with their friends.

Also, predatory clans? We are not actively aggresively hunting down new players in the game. Subclans still have requirements and application processes. They still deny people. They dont just go send an invite to everyone in the toribash community. That's what you're not seeing here. If an unofficial clan, pick any of them, starts not getting members, its obviously not because 'Oh that there clan is a subclan, a very predatory clan. My clan will obviously fail'. Thats not how that works. There is a reason no one is interested in that unofficial clan and why a lot of unofficial clans die out, because they are shit, and ran by people who have no clue or experience running a clan. Just because someone else comes along who has the experience and ability to run another clan better shouldn't be a factor.

I think the point he is trying to make is that not moderating the number of clans has potential to lead to squashing regular unofficial clans.
If only half of the current official clans decide to make unofficial sub-clans, the entire first page of the unoffical clan subforum could have 0 regular, non-feeder clans. I think it's easy to see correlation between being on the first page and what clans people apply for. I sort of doubt that many sub clans would arise, but I don't think its right to write rules that only work situationally.

The greater portion of my earlier comments were written badly and in ill tone. I was the only one that mentioned (Tribe). Again I apologise, I withdrew my comment about (Tribe). I have no problem with them or their members, I simply spoke childishly.

Seems most point have be touched on already, so I have little to say besides; Yes I agree, multi clan systems could be potentially damaging and hard to moderate. However, I only see this being the case if there were a plethora of them to moderate. As it stood (Parakeet) was the only one to openly say what it was and what it intended, I haven't a clue how many of the unofficial and official 1200 clans already do this. But for now one clan would not have been hard to keep an eye on I think, nor would it have been hard to monitor new clan creation after this premise. That being said past feeder clans were not a part of the new clan system and acheviment system so they cannot be used in my opinion to validate or condemn this idea.

I imagine I'll just get the too much work talk, I just don't see why this wasn't given any official shelf life to see if it would actually affect the clan climate?

i would like to iterate that this thread was NOT in any way serious. the fact that people could take it seriously as their method to their madness is completely beyond me.

@16bars, We didn't make Parakeet because we wanted to raise our membercap (in fact we increased Parrot's membercap right before we launched), so that puts a pin in that argument.

Parrot's not going to stop being fun and parroty. We want people who are fun and parroty. Our application process, so far, has lead to us recruiting a lot of fun and parroty people. We asked you to dance because we weren't overly impressed with you, but we still gave you the opportunity to change our minds by showing your level of commitment to joining us. It may be 'memey' but it separates the people who really want to join us, from the people who don't.

Parakeet isn't just a dedication test, like dancing was. It's development. Raising members to be better members. Something like Parakeet would've been perfect for you when you applied. Unfortunately we didn't have it at the time.

Parakeet is essentially a Parrot-sponsored unofficial clan on its own. They're going to be active in Parrot boards and Parrot is going to be active in their boards. I has literally nothing to do with member cap (we even went out of our way to war and raise our cap before launching Parakeet so that this was the case)

Basically, you helped prove our point. You applied, but lost interest and gave up. If we had Parakeet, you'd be able to join and really get to know how we Parrots are, and get to know us better than "wow Parrots r cool I wanna join"


Also, honestly a lot of the sub-clan-type clans I've seen in other games are actually trial for the main clan. I've been in a few myself and they're very effective.

again, you don't need parakeet for that
you have your own discord and IRC channels if you really want people to know you better. many clans use this process (us included) and it works fine, there is no need for a subclan

This case is a splendid example of overruling things nobody should actually care about.
I mean, you clan admins have so much power and so much responsibility to deal with. It must be a huge burden to serve this great community and not suffocate from the sheer pressure.
You are true gods. You need some sort of way to show the peasants the right way.

We should all be thankful for the huge amount of voluntary work you put into this game. I praise you for your altruistic efforts to bring improvements to this community.
I love everyone who is willing to put their time into something beautiful without asking for any returns.
Surely, there must be a way for us, as a community, to work together and figure out a good solution that will suit parrot's needs.

Admins, be honest with yourself. Who actually gets harmed even a tiny bit if people create sub-clans?
Everyone involved is perfectly transparent about the issue and nobody gets cheated or wronged by anything.

It is no exploit of any system either because there are no actual benefits for the main clan.

You brought up the point of member caps. May I ask how this child clan thing is a workaround on that? Is it not so that far inferior players would be in the child clan, trying to fight for a spot in the big clan? It is not as if they are equal clans that will try to cheat in events or leagues and things like that.
If they do that, you can ban them rightfully of course.

The only issue that may possibly occur is that child clan and main clan may exploit the clan war system to boost their points.
That one can easily be prevented, and honestly, if someone was going to exploit that they wouldn't go the route of creating an official child clan.

This is just bureaucracy and you know it.
Let people play the game like they want to play it. Don't force them to play it a certain way.

I mean, I personally think that child clans are a pretty inefficient and perhaps stupid way to go about this, but my personal opinion on that particular issue is irrelevant.
The big picture you should discuss is not if the idea if stupid, but if the idea is inherently malevolent or harmful in any way.
If it is not, let them have their stupid fun, goddamnit.
They are good people and they bring life to this community. Life is good, right?

Another thought I just had:
What if Ele was to leave Parrot officially. He could then go ahead and create a clan, perhaps he will name it Parakeet.
Now this new clan does not have any official affiliation with Parrot, though they may work together in close friendship, like many other clans are already doing.
They are not mother and child but they work together towards similar goals.

Would this be prohibited?
I think it would be a fun thing to create a new clan that has a very tight friendship with another, and perhaps they will end up exchanging members. These things happen regularly and that is nothing to be frowned upon.



Wow, you are being asked to humiliate yourself and then they wonder why their clan is dying? >_>

Not that I haven't done stupid things like that myself in the past, but boy, that's dumb.