Toribash
LSD ist not addictive. The contrary actually, it helps cure addictions.
Psycologic addiction is possible of course, though you have no physical withdrawl.



There was a significant beneficial effect of LSD on alcohol
misuse in the short-term and medium-term, which was not statisti-
cally significant in the long-term

https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&sourc...WKMa088fzFPNqL

You are correct to say that it can cause a lot of mental issues if abused. Hence age limits are definitely necessary

Originally Posted by Smaguris View Post
That's a stupid way of thinking. Cocaine has higher demand than any psychedelic (source) but you don't go legalize something just because a bunch of people want to do it.

Exercising futile activities is more harmful than legalizing substances whose current quality is in the hands of shady criminals despite the high demand.
Drugs and humanity go hand in hand and no arbitrary laws will stop many people.
Last edited by Redundant; Jul 26, 2018 at 10:32 PM. Reason: There was a significant beneficial effect of LSD on alcohol misuse in the short-term and medium-term, which was not statisti
How are you?
Drop acid not bombs


I think shooms or acid could have uses in very small doses with different illnesses and autistic kids...but if studies are not permited we will never know.



I am totally up for decriminalising and legalisation and everybody should try it at least once. So go ahead and go out and get 2 hits of acid and drop it. Some weed along with it to.
= SELLING MARKET INVENTORY =
Pm me for deals
Originally Posted by Redundant View Post
LSD ist not addictive. The contrary actually, it helps cure addictions.
Psycologic addiction is possible of course, though you have no physical withdrawl.



There was a significant beneficial effect of LSD on alcohol
misuse in the short-term and medium-term, which was not statisti-
cally significant in the long-term

https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&sourc...WKMa088fzFPNqL

You are correct to say that it can cause a lot of mental issues if abused. Hence age limits are definitely necessary


Exercising futile activities is more harmful than legalizing substances whose current quality is in the hands of shady criminals despite the high demand.
Drugs and humanity go hand in hand and no arbitrary laws will stop many people.

LSD is not physically addictive, but just like anything, it's mentally addictive. People think it's not addictive so they take it thinking it does no harm, when in reality it's building up the dependency on the drug to the point where you can't feel happy without taking a dose, which in turn makes you an addict. It doesn't matter that it doesn't cause any physical addiction or withdrawal, but when your social bonds and mood starts depending on the substance it's just as toxic as a physical addiction.

Originally Posted by notEle View Post
Nobody here said that LSD is the only path to gaining this kind of perspective and mindfulness. FistofLife directly said this in the post you responded to. So nah, you weren't really making a point, you were just moralising and wanted to call him ignorant.

No, I was making a point

Originally Posted by nikosefs View Post
please explain then how things work in the real world

don't you know about laced lsd,or as you mentioned xanax,laced xanax
,that's a problem of the black market,you don't know what you get

edit:
you seem to think that legalization means free access for all,but that is what black market is

https://www.thefix.com/content/decri...en-years-later

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_liberalization

Read my previous post, I explained it there. People will use black market to obtain psychedelics even if it gets legalised.
If mental addiction ist a reasonable ground for prohibiton let's start with chocolate.
We are talking about LSD here, not cocaine which actually makes it Impossible to feel happy during the withdrawl. That is physical addiction, not mental addiction. Please do not confuse them.
Cocaine abuse drains your dopamine levels to a point where you need the drug in order to feel any sort of positivity. LSD does not.
If you abuse LSD it actually stops working. You build up tolerance and are forced to recover before you are able to trip again.

None of your points gives me the feeling that you actually understand the topic, nor do any of them strike me as convincing cause for prohibition as I can find many legal examples that would have to be illegal by the same logic.


Read my previous post, I explained it there. People will use black market to obtain psychedelics even if it gets legalised.

Please explain the relevance. Same goes for all items imaginable.
There is probably black market ice cream.
LSD is very very easy to obtain. Illegal or not. It is high in demand and someone will fill the gap. Why not slap taxes and licenses on it and get some quality control.
You cited alcohol as example for substance abuse caused by legalisation. Let me ask you: Have you ever heard of Al Calpone?
Last edited by Redundant; Jul 27, 2018 at 11:17 PM.
How are you?
I would HATE the Government to take lead on this LSD charge, They would make it so much less potent in my opinion and tax it and make it hella $$$$ since I am only paying like $20 a pop and then like $10 a pop if you buy say a 10pack.

Could see the big boys being like nah fam for 40 a pop etc etc.

It's good in doses every say idk 6months or so depends on your levels and shit <3

And remember kiddos when doing LSD/Acid always High Dose but do it less often granted WICKED time <3

You friendly neighborhood Tripper <3
-----
That plus here is Australia you can buy testing kits to see what ya getting etc etc purely legal just want to make sure you are getting what ya paid for etc etc. So if they go hand in hand with that I'd be interested to see what the Government says
Last edited by Jewww; Jul 28, 2018 at 10:09 AM. Reason: <24 hour edit/bump
Rythm smells like Cheese
#ENVYONTOP
Prices here differ depending on where what etc etc, But tbh that not a bad price here is SA
Rythm smells like Cheese
#ENVYONTOP
Originally Posted by Redundant View Post
If mental addiction ist a reasonable ground for prohibiton let's start with chocolate.
We are talking about LSD here, not cocaine which actually makes it Impossible to feel happy during the withdrawl. That is physical addiction, not mental addiction. Please do not confuse them.
Cocaine abuse drains your dopamine levels to a point where you need the drug in order to feel any sort of positivity. LSD does not.
If you abuse LSD it actually stops working. You build up tolerance and are forced to recover before you are able to trip again.

None of your points gives me the feeling that you actually understand the topic, nor do any of them strike me as convincing cause for prohibition as I can find many legal examples that would have to be illegal by the same logic.

Your points are very biased. You can disagree with my opinion, but you can't deny the fact that in some instances LSD and other psychotropics lead people to accidental or intentional suicides or homicides, and that's just facts. Also let's not forget about unlikely yet possible long-term side effects such as anxiety, paranoia, panic attacks and so on.

Also don't ignore the fraction of people that increase the dosage when they build up tolerance instead of dropping it for a while. Don't use your personal experience to generalise whole group of users.

What makes you think that chocolate is even a valid comparison when these are well known and observed facts about psychotropics.

Originally Posted by Redundant View Post
Please explain the relevance. Same goes for all items imaginable.
There is probably black market ice cream.
LSD is very very easy to obtain. Illegal or not. It is high in demand and someone will fill the gap. Why not slap taxes and licenses on it and get some quality control.
You cited alcohol as example for substance abuse caused by legalisation. Let me ask you: Have you ever heard of Al Calpone?

I was replying to nikosefs after he claimed that legalisation would magically remove the drug from the black market. Don't twist the conversation.
Last edited by Smaguris; Jul 28, 2018 at 05:35 PM.
If you read my post carefully you will notice that I admit that there are dangers to LSD. Of course I am biased as I am argueing pro LSD. You are biased because you argue con LSD. Why do you even bring that up?

There are possible long term side effects. They are not the ones you mentioned, but there is a danger of course.
That is why I proposed an age restriction. Please don't say I am not aware of dangers when I voluntarily mention them in my very first post in this thread.
All drugs, legal or not, have potential harmful side effects.
There exist horror stories but I never actually met anyone who got permanently damaged, so I take those stories with a grain of salt.

As for raising dosages to counter tolerance: Nope. Doesn't work. Ask anyone who has been raving hard non stop on acid for 5 days straight. You simply stop trippin' until you recovered.
LSD does not cause addiction. I brought chocolate up as example because you claimed that mental addiction ist a good reason for prohibition. Read that post carefully because I would rather not repeat myself.

Of course I will use both my experience and my knowledge in the subject. I have studied the drug, talked to many people who used it and consumed it on several occasions.
I know how it gets produced, its history and how it affects your body and mind. I know the potential dangers and side effects. I know it is widely available to the point where it might as well be legal because it makes no difference. Drop me in any city in the world and I will find acid within a night.
So please explain to me why I would not use my experience in an arbitrary online ramble? That makes no sense.

As for blackmarkets: nikosefs admits that they are a problem. So you basically agree on that. Talking about them being a problem is beating a dead horse.
People will always use them, even for legal things.

The angle he comes from is not the fact that people use black markets but the fact that they are the only means of acquiring acid right now.
Admittedly the quality of black market LSD is very good, but the production procedure of LSD is incredibly dangerous. I mean VERY dangerous. If you ever become interested in making some: I warned ya.
Leave it to the licensed professionals. Shit, there are none.
How are you?
Originally Posted by nikosefs View Post
geez,i never claimed it would magically fix everything
including world hunger,but i did point to you how countries
that have legalized drugs have dropped rates of use,including
Portugal,Czech republic and others.At least do some research dude.

As for you,you haven't pointed anything,you have cited nothing
for us to check your "facts",and then you say to others to stop using
their own personal experience,what have you done in this thread
besides stating your personal experience?

edit:
here's some sources,any country that has legalized drug use,sees
less drug related crimes,less drug related deaths and overall a drop
in numbers of users:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-10301780.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal
https://news.vice.com/article/ungass...weed-to-heroin
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...cy-use-problem
https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetwb.../#2d60618c59eb

I cited hardly anything because everything I state are pretty much well known facts that don't require sources, but you've provided some, so let's go over them. My first thought is that you hardly went over these articles yourself, because some of them are actually going against what you're saying.

First of all, and this is very important, those countries decriminalised drugs, not legalise them. Albeit it presents some interesting statistics, it's definitely far from being legalised, which is why it doesn't really work for you as an argument. The way it works is if you get caught with a stash of weed or cocaine you will get fine and treatment recommendation instead of criminal record, however, it's still very much illegal.

That's the point though, if you were arguing for decriminalisation of the drug I'd be standing next to you on this, but matter of a fact is those are two different things that aren't that much similar.

Also as one of your sources state "while levels of drug use in Portugal appear to be relatively low, reported levels of cannabis use in the Czech Republic are among the highest in Europe." suggesting it probably depends more on the culture on how they handle the change.

The article about states that legalised weed having lower crime rates seem to talk about crime rates related to drug trades rather than crime in general. Still, good argument on your part and I can't disregard it, but it doesn't show any significant numbers.

Originally Posted by Redundant View Post
If you read my post carefully you will notice that I admit that there are dangers to LSD. Of course I am biased as I am argueing pro LSD. You are biased because you argue con LSD. Why do you even bring that up?

There are possible long term side effects. They are not the ones you mentioned, but there is a danger of course.
That is why I proposed an age restriction. Please don't say I am not aware of dangers when I voluntarily mention them in my very first post in this thread.
All drugs, legal or not, have potential harmful side effects.
There exist horror stories but I never actually met anyone who got permanently damaged, so I take those stories with a grain of salt.

As for raising dosages to counter tolerance: Nope. Doesn't work. Ask anyone who has been raving hard non stop on acid for 5 days straight. You simply stop trippin' until you recovered.
LSD does not cause addiction. I brought chocolate up as example because you claimed that mental addiction ist a good reason for prohibition. Read that post carefully because I would rather not repeat myself.

Of course I will use both my experience and my knowledge in the subject. I have studied the drug, talked to many people who used it and consumed it on several occasions.
I know how it gets produced, its history and how it affects your body and mind. I know the potential dangers and side effects. I know it is widely available to the point where it might as well be legal because it makes no difference. Drop me in any city in the world and I will find acid within a night.
So please explain to me why I would not use my experience in an arbitrary online ramble? That makes no sense.

As for blackmarkets: nikosefs admits that they are a problem. So you basically agree on that. Talking about them being a problem is beating a dead horse.
People will always use them, even for legal things.

The angle he comes from is not the fact that people use black markets but the fact that they are the only means of acquiring acid right now.
Admittedly the quality of black market LSD is very good, but the production procedure of LSD is incredibly dangerous. I mean VERY dangerous. If you ever become interested in making some: I warned ya.
Leave it to the licensed professionals. Shit, there are none.

I'm not that biased though. I'm here to bring up the facts that you seem to ignore, I don't make pointless comparisons and my arguments don't rely on opinionated statements.

You have a lot of experience and that's great, but relying on it for your arguments is not very informative. As an example you mentioned that "those are not side effects of acid" but I found many many sources that state those exact points. I'll link you some over here.

Btw the argument about production being dangerous is an interesting one, but I'd have to say that people who produce it are probably doing it willingly due to nice paycheck (in most cases anyways).

https://drugabuse.com/library/effects-acid-lsd/
https://www.drugs.com/illicit/lsd.html
https://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfa...ks-of-lsd.html