Originally Posted by nine
Ok, Basil, I'm going to simplify this a bit and make it easier for you to understand, since you already have a negative perception of what we are talking about rn.
For starters, I am directly replying to your posts within the bounds of which you are writing. My response is to what you stated in the quotes. I did not miss your point. The idea of coin flipping, to you, is based on the premise that we are surrounded by people with vastly different skill levels. So I'm going to give you a scenario (which is a true scenario because this is all ive done for the last 10 years).
*Ray 12 Enters Pub ABD lobby*
Players:
Ray12 - Tc- 10,000
Nine - Tc- 900,000
Rythm -Tc 3,000,000
Enclave -Tc 10,000,000
Froog - Tc 40,000
Ray12 asks if anyone wants to duel, Enclave asks how much, Ray12 says "10k?" enclave says "too little"
*Enclave will not duel until ray12 has more tc (so its worth his time)*
Nine, and Rythm are silent, they are playing a match rn
Froog says, "yea sure I dont duel but ok"
Ray12 wins +10k then 30k by upping the duel
Ray12 has 50k
Ray12 goes back and asks nine, nine says sure.
Ray 12 has to streak nine numerous times to not bank himself but get all of nines tc. If ray12 plays safe nine will get bored so they keep numbers high. Nine loses all 900k.
__________________________________________________ ________________
I hope you get the point, it's gambling if we are at equal skill, its also completely up to you as the player to just not accept the duel. Nobody is forcing you. It's not luck, it's not a coin toss. If Ray12 lost to anyone leading up to banking the whole lobby, then it starts from zero. Nobody with 10kk is trying to pull 50k from you. They don't want that; they want everything. If you aren't good enough to duel, then it's not a coin flip. It's a skill gap. We are at a point in time where duelers havent chosen the lesser because that wont get your name out there. That won't tell people you're good. We can ALL see it and just not duel you.
To talk about dueling as if its just luck from both ends is honestly a slap in the face to those who spent time actually trying to get better at MP, usd dueling takes what you "worked" for and applies it. If you did a COD 1v1 for $1000 is that luck? A CS 1v1 for $2000, is that luck? Is that the point you were trying to make?
The habits of some duelers is gambling, but they didnt get to that point by bs'ing, they got there from labbing, watching. Losing losing losing winning winning losing. Again and again. You cant just make that up
the difference between cod/cs and toribash is that toribash is a genuinely solved game, you can literally do the same shit over and over and just win games, and since both duelers know about that it just becomes literal coinflips. most duelers active rn are equally skilled because they just know the same things that the other players do, the game has been out for 19 years, everyone knows how to play boxshu, everyone knows every abd opener you can possibly use and how to play against it, if you pick the wrong one you just lose and move on to the next game. its literally coinflipping on openers every time. i am not talking about little timmy streaking people who actually play the game, i am talking about real duelers who have real time put into the game. it is not a skill gap between them, its literally winning based on who picked the right opener that game. not a single player who is active rn is better than any other dueler from like 5+ years ago, they simply know the new meta openers that beat the previous meta openers. and quite frankly i dont think there has been a single new meta opener made in the past 5 years anyway they're all still using shit from the mesozoic period spamming camp openers in boxshu and then picking a random frame to launch hoping they don't die. IMO legend status is reserved for people who went above and beyond their peers, and not a single dueler actually has done that in recent memory.
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Originally Posted by skizz
then why the FUCK are u talking about it
Because you're trying to boil this down into "it's just diamond DDD." As if there aren't, like, 60 replay makers who all did something no one else did. I'm not taking away from them, just how I'd rather you not take away from those who had a separate focus instead of single player
Originally Posted by Basil
the difference between cod/cs and toribash is that toribash is a genuinely solved game, you can literally do the same shit over and over and just win games, and since both duelers know about that it just becomes literal coinflips. most duelers active rn are equally skilled because they just know the same things that the other players do, the game has been out for 19 years, everyone knows how to play boxshu, everyone knows every abd opener you can possibly use and how to play against it, if you pick the wrong one you just lose and move on to the next game. its literally coinflipping on openers every time. i am not talking about little timmy streaking people who actually play the game, i am talking about real duelers who have real time put into the game. it is not a skill gap between them, its literally winning based on who picked the right opener that game. not a single player who is active rn is better than any other dueler from like 5+ years ago, they simply know the new meta openers that beat the previous meta openers. and quite frankly i dont think there has been a single new meta opener made in the past 5 years anyway they're all still using shit from the mesozoic period spamming camp openers in boxshu and then picking a random frame to launch hoping they don't die. IMO legend status is reserved for people who went above and beyond their peers, and not a single dueler actually has done that in recent memory.
That exist strictly for ABD btw. Every other mod has "meta openers" which dont mean anything if youre not just better.
ABD locks it down to openers, that is true
Lenshu is a partial opener reliant Mod
Boxshu isnt because you can choose how to trap, how to rush, how and when to stay still and when to run. The opener is redundant if you know how to be patient
Judo is just if you can predict better than your opponent
Tk is a mind game that has a very high skill ceiling
Rk-mma is for those who cant slow down, you need a diff playstyle
In all of these mods except ABD, you can run a pure neutral opener to force the opponent to come to you and vice versa. While it's fair to say that there are times where it's "all the same thing," someone still has to make a mistake. I want to bring light to those who often dont make those mistakes.
EDIT: I referred to the last 8 years for a reason since the game is fried in player count
Originally Posted by nine
That exist strictly for ABD btw. Every other mod has "meta openers" which dont mean anything if youre not just better.
ABD locks it down to openers, that is true
Lenshu is a partial opener reliant Mod
Boxshu isnt because you can choose how to trap, how to rush, how and when to stay still and when to run. The opener is redundant if you know how to be patient
Judo is just if you can predict better than your opponent
Tk is a mind game that has a very high skill ceiling
Rk-mma is for those who cant slow down, you need a diff playstyle
In all of these mods except ABD, you can run a pure neutral opener to force the opponent to come to you and vice versa. While it's fair to say that there are times where it's "all the same thing," someone still has to make a mistake. I want to bring light to those who often dont make those mistakes.
diddy blud dont think boxshu is an rng mod. its fucking over. trying to make a case that duels are actually NOT coinflips and genuinely skill reliant and then using judo as an example should honestly necessitate a wellness check upon your household, most games LITERALLY end in ONE turn. it is theoretically possible to predict exactly what your opponent is gonna do in that one turn and win, but so is calling a coinflip 30 times in a row. if you can do that consistently you need to hit up your local gas station and buy as many lottery tickets as you can, you're gonna be a fucking billionaire in no time. not to mention the fact that literally nobody duels in anything other than abd boxshu or lenshu? and you yourself mentioned how 2/3 of those are opener reliant. on top of that, boxshu and lenshu are both incredibly easy mods to run in, due to their open nature and large dojo size. you can literally kick someone's shin 1 time and then run away for the rest of the game, would you consider that to be skillful? do you think cheesing the fuck out of everybody you play against to be some supreme display of skill? i don't. nobody plays in a way that makes their skill shine, everybody plays passive as fuck, since there's "money" on the line. if people actually played in interesting, unique ways, i would actually agree with you, i would love to see more MP representation, however the players we have are simply just lacking in that aspect. you can't play in an interesting way because you're just gonna get steamrolled by hyperoptimised meta openers that kill everything that isn't specifically designed to counter them, and innovation has grown stagnant. at least SP replaymakers still TRY to innovate, they TRY to do cool new things in unique ways. every single one of them has their own unique style that is a one of a kind blend of all their inspirations and experiences, whereas if you legit lp both players as a blank tori in a duel replay you would not be able to tell which one is which.
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