Original Post
Transgender citizens and the military
Hi there! To generate a little activity in this board here is a relevant thread!!
Ok, as you all know, U.S. President Donald Trump banned transgender people from serving in the U.S. military in any capacity. If you dont know this, what?!?!?! Where have you been living?!?!?! This thread serves as a discussion point for this, and the questions posed by this thread are as follows:
Discuss.
Ok, as you all know, U.S. President Donald Trump banned transgender people from serving in the U.S. military in any capacity. If you dont know this, what?!?!?! Where have you been living?!?!?! This thread serves as a discussion point for this, and the questions posed by this thread are as follows:
- Firstly a big grand question, was Trump right to impose this ban?
- Does the increased frequency of mental health issues in transgender people give Trump an/or American military reason to be concerned about their transgender troops in possession of lethal arms?
- Trump claims to have support from his superior military advisors, but the reactions from military generals make the decision seem sudden to them, does this give american military personal and/or american citizens reason to be concerned?
- Trump claimed that he would protect LGBTQ citizens and made some specific speeches on LGBTQ citizens in his campaign, has he gone back on this pledge, in part, in full, or not at all?
Discuss.
Don't dm me pictures of bowls that you find attractive.
Alright let's address it one at a time:
1. Was Trump right to impose the ban - Well he's the commander in chief, so he certainly in that regard has the authority. But no, I don't think he's right to do this ban. And it's not even fully practiced, we have people in the military of all branches say "I don't care what he said, I'm not imposing that."
If you're an American citizen and you're benefiting from all the freedoms our military has kept possible without contributing yourself, it's ludicrous to say "No I don't want to be kept safe by a transgender person". Now, you're active military, we have a dicey situation here. I want my troops to be comfortable BUT, I don't care if they're uncomfortable if they are standing on shaky ground morally. If every troop member was polled and said that 90% of them didn't want African-American soldiers, I don't give a shit, I'm saying don't ban them.
2. Does the increase frequency give them concern about lethal firearms - well, they got a funny time caring about that. I work as an EMT, and part of my job working in the private sector is doing what are called "Baker Acts". That is when someone is deemed a danger to themselves or others, more than likely because they've voiced a want or created an attempt to kill themselves. I've worked well over a hundred Baker Acts, and I can tell you, more than half of them are ex military. So if you're telling me the government is banning people for this problem and that problem when it comes to depression and other non-psychotic mental illnesses, I want to hear what are they doing about our current soldiers. Because they are turning the most healthiest of men and women into manic depressive suicidal patients anyways. Yes its a risk, but maybe this will help fund the mental health support they clearly need in the branches anyways.
3. You got a thousand reasons to be concerned about Trump's presidency, but them feeling broadsided by this decision is a blip on a much bigger radar dot. He's escalating a nuclear stand off with a dictator as we speak with improvised speeches that makes him sound like he's binge watching Game of Thrones. Yeah it's not good, but it's moot compared to all the other lousy impromptu decisions he's making.
4. Yes. It's in the name, lgbTq. He stole a few votes from HC independents by taking a few pictures with a rainbow flag, but this president gets a failing grade on all accounts of LGBTQ.
1. Was Trump right to impose the ban - Well he's the commander in chief, so he certainly in that regard has the authority. But no, I don't think he's right to do this ban. And it's not even fully practiced, we have people in the military of all branches say "I don't care what he said, I'm not imposing that."
If you're an American citizen and you're benefiting from all the freedoms our military has kept possible without contributing yourself, it's ludicrous to say "No I don't want to be kept safe by a transgender person". Now, you're active military, we have a dicey situation here. I want my troops to be comfortable BUT, I don't care if they're uncomfortable if they are standing on shaky ground morally. If every troop member was polled and said that 90% of them didn't want African-American soldiers, I don't give a shit, I'm saying don't ban them.
2. Does the increase frequency give them concern about lethal firearms - well, they got a funny time caring about that. I work as an EMT, and part of my job working in the private sector is doing what are called "Baker Acts". That is when someone is deemed a danger to themselves or others, more than likely because they've voiced a want or created an attempt to kill themselves. I've worked well over a hundred Baker Acts, and I can tell you, more than half of them are ex military. So if you're telling me the government is banning people for this problem and that problem when it comes to depression and other non-psychotic mental illnesses, I want to hear what are they doing about our current soldiers. Because they are turning the most healthiest of men and women into manic depressive suicidal patients anyways. Yes its a risk, but maybe this will help fund the mental health support they clearly need in the branches anyways.
3. You got a thousand reasons to be concerned about Trump's presidency, but them feeling broadsided by this decision is a blip on a much bigger radar dot. He's escalating a nuclear stand off with a dictator as we speak with improvised speeches that makes him sound like he's binge watching Game of Thrones. Yeah it's not good, but it's moot compared to all the other lousy impromptu decisions he's making.
4. Yes. It's in the name, lgbTq. He stole a few votes from HC independents by taking a few pictures with a rainbow flag, but this president gets a failing grade on all accounts of LGBTQ.
Need help?
Creati0n says: still my favorite. <3
I sacrificed my firstborn for this great human being to join (M) ~R
Just Use Thunder!
Creati0n says: still my favorite. <3
I sacrificed my firstborn for this great human being to join (M) ~R
Just Use Thunder!
Originally Posted by MagnusSol
It'll be interesting to see a Trump supporter's point of view on this and I hope we have one.
Not a Trump supporter, but I do have some alternate views on this (i.e. being trans isn't all roses and sunshine, it's got a dark underside that nobody talks about in polite conversation to avoid seeming bigoted).
Originally Posted by Bodhisattva
1. Was Trump right to impose the ban - Well he's the commander in chief, so he certainly in that regard has the authority. But no, I don't think he's right to do this ban. And it's not even fully practiced, we have people in the military of all branches say "I don't care what he said, I'm not imposing that."
Yeah, he didn't actually present any policy or run any procedures to make this happen. He just made a tweet - So it's not actually a thing.
Originally Posted by Bodhisattva
So if you're telling me the government is banning people for this problem and that problem when it comes to depression and other non-psychotic mental illnesses, I want to hear what are they doing about our current soldiers. Because they are turning the most healthiest of men and women into manic depressive suicidal patients anyways. Yes its a risk, but maybe this will help fund the mental health support they clearly need in the branches anyways.
40% of transgender people have tried killing themselves before the age of 25. The perfectly normal men and women who haven't tried killing themselves before they enter the military still end up suffering PTSD and committing acts of harm against themselves or others, so you can be sure that the trans who were/are suicidal would not cope well.
I firmly believe it's not a good idea to let people who are/have been suicidal into the military. As Oracle said later on, they run psychological tests for deployment and I'm sure (in Aus they do at least), they run psychological tests making sure no suicidal people get into the military in the first place.
There doesn't need to be a 'transgender' ban and there isn't.
Governments should (and most do) conduct psychological screening for initial entry and deployments and if any red flags pop up, the applicant should be denied. No need for a blanket ban against an identity group, just continue to ban the ones that were/are suicidal and who don't meet the psychological (or any other) requirements.
Last edited by Ele; Aug 16, 2017 at 04:38 AM.
My counter to that Ele is we need to consider why transgender people kill themselves. Shot in the dark - I'd imagine they can't get their gender reassignment surgery, and are generally treated as 2nd class citizens.
The military already pays for ancillary surgeries with a certain amount of commitment (I think it's 3 years?), and well, it doesn't help someone's cause when their country says you're not good enough to defend our freedoms.
Gender reassignment surgery being paid for by the military is a difficult prospect, but not unobtainable. If we're going to spend as much as we do on defense spending, might as well take a moral high ground on a subject like this. From what I've been told, you can already get breast augmentation on the military dime.
Where you and I both agree is the government simply doesn't do enough in clinical/mental health for our prospective and current troops.
The military already pays for ancillary surgeries with a certain amount of commitment (I think it's 3 years?), and well, it doesn't help someone's cause when their country says you're not good enough to defend our freedoms.
Gender reassignment surgery being paid for by the military is a difficult prospect, but not unobtainable. If we're going to spend as much as we do on defense spending, might as well take a moral high ground on a subject like this. From what I've been told, you can already get breast augmentation on the military dime.
Where you and I both agree is the government simply doesn't do enough in clinical/mental health for our prospective and current troops.
Need help?
Creati0n says: still my favorite. <3
I sacrificed my firstborn for this great human being to join (M) ~R
Just Use Thunder!
Creati0n says: still my favorite. <3
I sacrificed my firstborn for this great human being to join (M) ~R
Just Use Thunder!
Originally Posted by Bodhisattva
My counter to that Ele is we need to consider why transgender people kill themselves. Shot in the dark - I'd imagine they can't get their gender reassignment surgery, and are generally treated as 2nd class citizens.
You're right, that is a shot in the dark. There's not been enough research done in this area. I think that their suicidal tendencies are probably at least just as biological as they social, solely because rarely is anything just affected by one source.
Originally Posted by Bodhisattva
The military already pays for ancillary surgeries with a certain amount of commitment (I think it's 3 years?), and well, it doesn't help someone's cause when their country says you're not good enough to defend our freedoms.
Gender reassignment surgery being paid for by the military is a difficult prospect, but not unobtainable. If we're going to spend as much as we do on defense spending, might as well take a moral high ground on a subject like this. From what I've been told, you can already get breast augmentation on the military dime.
I haven't looked into this myself, but according to Shapiro (who, while he is a smarmy bastard, usually get his facts right), the rate of suicide among post-op transpeople isn't much different from pre-op.
Whether or not that's actually the case, it'd be worth investigating the effect reassignment surgery has on mental health. I've heard, anecdotally, all sorts of different stories. I'd definitely want it fully investigated before the government started using my money to fund it.
